Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 3, episode 31,. An Adventurer's Mindset. And I'm your host, tom Butler. A couple of weeks ago I talked about plans to do the Destiny Dozen ride. One thing I learned is that the Dozen is a baker's dozen, so it is 12 of the hardest climbs in Tacoma, washington, and a 13th thrown in for fun. It was a really fun event.

Tom Butler: 0:39

Leon Nettles, executive director of Second Cycle, let out the group I was in. This group was known as the quote fun group. Leon was riding an electric cargo bike with who knows how much equipment on it. It was fitted with two batteries and I bet he needed all the power he had. One accessory on the bike was a fairly good-sized Bluetooth speaker, so when we hit a hill, riders could get inspired by a hill climb-specific playlist. By the way, if you're looking for a playlist to blast from a speaker on your bike, you can search Spotify for Destiny Dozen 24 under the playlist section. I'm not a big fan of playing music when riding, but it worked with the party atmosphere of the Destiny Dozen ride. It is possible that my rejection of music on a ride could just be my age.

Tom Butler: 1:25

The Destiny Dozen might have been the hardest thing I've done on a bike. The only thing that might have been tougher was climbing 6,559 feet over Washington Pass. The ride over the pass was a long, steady climb. The Destiny Dozen was short, really steep hills. I managed to do 10 of the 13 climbs. On the other three I walked about halfway up. One climb was horrific cobblestones. I think I might have been able to make that climb if it had been a normal road, but I'm not sure. I was going really slowly up the hills and I just couldn't keep the bike under control on the cobblestones. On the other two that I didn't make, my heart rate got high enough for me to stop. One of the hills had a section with a 26% grade. It was just a small section, but I was unable to get past it. It was a little strange because I felt like I got better as the day went on with respect to managing my effort. For one thing, I stayed toward the back of the group. That allowed me to avoid people passing me. Plus, by the time I got to the middle of the climb, people who were going to stop had already stepped off and were pulled to the side. I was riding the Roubaix, so my lowest gear option was 34-34. I think that should be low enough, but there were plenty of people who had mountain bikes or other setups with lower gear options.

Tom Butler: 2:43

I did feel like I paced myself pretty well throughout the day. The climbs got somewhat easier and I did the last seven hills in a row. I did much better on the longer climbs that weren't so steep, I would have to say. After only the second hill I texted people saying that I made a mistake, so it took a bit for me to convince myself to keep going. Being in the fun group meant that we rode slower between hills. However, after the last hill the pace picked up dramatically back to second cycle. However, after the last hill the pace picked up dramatically back to the finish area, which was second cycle in Tacoma, where it had started from. I was pleased that I had enough in my legs that I was able to keep up what is a pretty good pace for me all the way to the end. I was also pleased that I took off the next day after the ride and then did a really light recovery ride two days later and I ended up being fine. So my recovery from what was pretty intense seemed really good. I thought I was going to have some crampings the night after the ride, but fortunately that did not happen. A big question for me is will I do it again next year? I really did like the challenge of it, so I think there's a good chance that I will do it again. One thing is I never felt like anyone looked down on me for going slow or even when I had to walk. It really was a great atmosphere. I'll have to see how I feel coming up to it next year.

Tom Butler: 4:03

One thing I'm happy to share with everyone is that Cycling Over 60 has become an affiliate with Cycling Without Age recently. I believe there's something incredibly wholesome about the Cycling Without Age effort. If you don't know about Cycling Without Age, you can get a lot of information from their website at cyclingwithoutageorg. For me, a really great option is to watch a series on PBS called Joy Ride. You can watch the series through the PBS website or on YouTube. I will put links to both of these. Cycling Over 60 is going to be helping get mechanical support and also training people to operate the tri-shaws for an organization here in Tacoma, washington. Hopefully we can be a resource for the entire region at some point If you watch the PBS footage about the program, you can see the impact of giving people with limited mobility a ride. For me, this has the potential of bringing an aspect of service to Cycling Over 60, and I'm looking forward to growing our efforts to support local programs.

Tom Butler: 5:12

Because of the fine people at Warm Showers, I've had some great conversations to share with you here on the podcast lately this week I'm joined by Ken Reinky, who has inspired me as much as anyone could. There are just some people that approach life as an adventure. Ken is definitely one of them. As you will hear, he has taken on life challenges despite some significant physical limitations. Here's our discussion. For the rest of my life, I want to do what it takes to challenge myself, to stay active, and my guest today I see as a real model for that kind of determination. Ken Reinke, thank you for joining me today.

Ken Reinke: 5:48

Oh, my pleasure.

Tom Butler: 5:50

As I said, you have modeled a willingness to take on physical challenges and I'm really happy for people to hear you share your story Now. When you were too young to remember you were diagnosed with polio and I'm wondering if you talk about how that shaped your life in respect to being active.

Ken Reinke: 6:12

Well, I've always lived with a substantial limp. That has been my entire life, and so that has actually probably been to my advantage, because I didn't have to change anything. I had to grow into this and even when I was really young, I played soccer before school, in grade school, and we played baseball and I did all those things and I don't remember that it was anything special for me. I just approached it with that young person uh, deliverateness.

Tom Butler: 6:55

Do you feel like your family kind of helped you have that perspective that this was just something to you know to keep on living with and things like that?

Ken Reinke: 7:07

Oh, it's hard to tell, it's hard for me to tell on that we just went along as though nothing was unusual. But I did have to go. You know, I wore brace shoes back then and stuff like that, so that there was nothing normal about that, but my parents didn't act like anything was totally unusual.

Tom Butler: 7:30

Now, how about your earliest memories of the bicycle? When you think about that, what comes to mind?

Ken Reinke: 7:35

Probably when I was about eight or nine years old, my father found a bicycle in a ditch what was left of a bicycle in a ditch and he actually assembled that for me made that bicycle work, and I mean I loved it right away.

Tom Butler: 7:54

Nice, well, that's fantastic Good for your dad to do that, Indeed. So you talked about how you just kept going, you know, despite having, you know, a brace on and things like that. Do you see that you did have to overcome some obstacles because of that? And if so, did that shape that overcoming obstacles earlier in life can shape your ability to take on different difficult things later overcoming?

Ken Reinke: 8:24

obstacles earlier in life can shape your ability to take on different difficult things later. Well, I have to assume that it did. Eventually, I could discover that it was an advantage that I didn't let it stop me from doing much, but it helped me, yes, I think, to overcome obstacles in general.

Tom Butler: 8:43

As you got older. How did your cycling change? Did you do more of it? Did you back off from it at some point, or have you been pretty consistent?

Ken Reinke: 8:53

I've been somewhat consistent, depending on what I was doing. I've lived a checkered life of different jobs and stuff like that and moving around of different jobs and stuff like that, and moving around Fast forward to my 60s, because after all, we're talking about cycling after 60. And I was off and on bikes all the rest of my life. But since I turned 60, my limp has gotten worse. My disability from polio is a little more pronounced now. I cannot walk without a cane or a walker. But since bike riding is non-weight bearing, my scoliosis isn't so affected. You know, having limped my whole life, I have a curvature that's painful, but I can get on my bike without pain and ride, and that's part of the reason for these long distance cycling tours.

Tom Butler: 9:56

Nice, that's very cool. And then before 60, I think simply in your 40s, you were diagnosed with diabetes and I'm wondering if you could talk about your reaction to that diagnosis.

Ken Reinke: 10:14

Well, it certainly wasn't good. I was in my 40s, I didn't even know what diabetes was. And then all of a sudden things have changed and I have to go to the doctor and they're like, well, you know, you're a sweet guy, is what they the way they put it? And I'm like, well, what does that mean? And then, well, you're diabetic. I had no idea and so you know it was a big learning curve, adjusting on medications and blood sugar and stuff like that. But I wasn't riding my bike a lot during that era. I was working in Alaska and then in the winters, when I left Alaska, I would travel overseas, in foreign countries, backpack traveling. So I've always been moving around. But eventually I had to face the diabetes and change things. It's a lifestyle change.

Tom Butler: 11:17

Right? Were they prescribing insulin for you immediately, or did that come about over time?

Ken Reinke: 11:26

uh, no, um, first of all, they start you off with oral medications and stuff like that, and, uh, eventually, I had enough trouble with some of those. I I honestly would recommend people go straight to insulin, because it's a hormone, it's not a drug, and it's very clean, without side effects. I think insulin is a better way to go. So eventually, though, I graduated to that, and so for the last 25 years, it's just been insulin.

Tom Butler: 12:05

Gotcha, you made what I think is kind of a fun comment where you said my neural pathways being what they are. I started to think about the idea of crossing the country by bicycle. I'm curious about that statement. What do you mean by my neural pathways being what they are?

Ken Reinke: 12:27

Because for me, once I was retired and I'm riding my bike all the time, it's just automatic. Oh, I wonder if I can make it across the country, and it's like something that I can't even help it. You know, it's automatic. And then that led to Route 67.

Tom Butler: 12:51

So you have. I think I'm picking up an adventurer's mindset. Is that fair to say?

Ken Reinke: 12:58

Yeah, almost to a crippling amount, because I've actually hitchhiked over 16,000 miles in the United States in my youth and I've traveled to 30 countries backpack traveling and I, just like the developing countries, better Forget Europe, you know. Give me Indonesia. So that kind of thing. Yeah, I'm an adventurer.

Tom Butler: 13:31

Nice, talk about Route 67.

Ken Reinke: 13:36

Route 67 was the natural progression of that inability to control my thinking on things and it just came on automatically. I'm like, okay, maybe I read some about going to San Diego, stay south, don't fight the weather. And so Route 67, it just came on naturally. And even my wife said, well, it seems kind of far, but I don't know. It was just the natural next step and I learned about routes through.

Ken Reinke: 14:20

I joined Adventure Cycling Association and I can't say enough good about their route maps and you get to know from the beginning. Their maps are broken into 30-mile sections and you get to know in advance what's coming up and it might well be nothing, but you'll know that also. So those maps made Route 67. I call it Route 67 because I was 67 years old, but that made that route easy in terms of you know planning what roads to take and stuff like that. Highly recommend that for first-time cross-country bikers. So where were you starting? At my house. I live right here in North Florida. I live in Hawthorne, florida. So no, I didn't go over to the East Coast and dip my tire or anything. I just left from my house and the southern tier left from my house and the southern tier, which is what that route is called to San Diego is only about 12 miles from my house.

Tom Butler: 15:35

So you talked about Adventure Cycling Association connecting with them. I had an opportunity to talk with their executive director with their executive director, jen O'Dell, and that was on November 16th 2023. So I do encourage people to go back and listen to that, because it's a fantastic organization. And so when you started doing that, did you? It sounds like that was a learning experience when you started out, were you pretty comfortable with having a lot of unknowns, or did you feel like you pretty much had everything locked in?

Ken Reinke: 16:10

No, I am extremely comfortable with unknowns and that's why all that hitchhiking back when and the travel to foreign countries. No, I don't have any problem with unknowns. In fact, here everybody more or less speaks English. So now other unknowns like how was the diabetes going to affect me and could I actually make it? Is it completely crazy? But I was riding a lot, I was riding. I could ride 30 miles in the morning and I was riding 100 miles a week and that's what led into okay, let's give it a go. I mean, I wasn't riding a loaded bike. That was one of the things when I pulled out of on all of my bike, cross-country biking. I pull out of my carport with 50 pounds of gear on my bicycle and I have a Surly long haul trucker and it's excellent for carrying heavy weights and it's got 30 speeds, so it could really help me get up the rises, the hills.

Tom Butler: 17:21

And you were relying a lot on your backpacking, I think, in knowing how to camp and what to take and even how to keep things light, things like that seems like would have been something you were well familiar with.

Ken Reinke: 17:37

Well, I did do research and there's a lot of it online. There's a lot of stuff online and there's the ones that you know count every ounce because you have to carry every ounce to the top of that next hill. I'm not quite that fanatic about it. I'm like if I need it, I need it. I'm gonna take it and manage to get up that hill.

Tom Butler: 18:28

Nice, and then you chose April Fool's Day 2021 to start another trip. So tell me why you decided to hit the road again.

Ken Reinke: 18:50

I did the San Diego route. That was about 3000 miles, and then that during the spring of whatever year that was, and then I did a 900 mile trip down to Key West and back from my house that winter. But then COVID hit and I took that year off because I was finding it difficult even to fill water bottles, you know. And I took that year off. But then when that let up, I couldn't help it again. I was addicted and I'm going, and I'm going to hit try to go to my friend's house in near Seattle, and so, and then I had to do that without route established because I only rarely incurred any routes from Adventure Cycling Association.

Ken Reinke: 19:39

I think I was on the transcontinental route for about 100 miles or so, otherwise I had to make up my own routes and along the way I had waypoints. You know, I had friends in Mississippi and some people in Denver, and then I wanted to stop at the Adventure Cycling Association. So those were three waypoints and it was just figuring out the in-between and I love maps, so I was, was, you know, good at it so how did that play out?

Tom Butler: 20:13

was that like every few days you picked routes for the next three days or were you like day to day? What? What were you doing in that respect?

Ken Reinke: 20:22

well. So I got paper maps and I used google maps bicycle Now in towns and between towns and stuff like that. It's in big cities especially. It's great, it is a great thing, but it's not so great out in the country and it took me over a couple bridges that weren't there and stuff like that. So, but that's all part of all part of the adventure of it and so, yeah, okay, well, this bridge isn't here. I guess I got to find another route.

Tom Butler: 21:04

So it was yeah, if I was reading correctly that, on the fly problem solving, did you like embrace that with what you called Route 69? You called Route 67 because you're 67 and then Route 69. Was that really a big part of it was to embrace that unknown route, that challenge or that adventure of planning things out and having to overcome maybe something like a bridge out.

Ken Reinke: 21:38

Absolutely. To me. That's the spice of cross country traveling, especially without an established route. Yes, I got drowned out of my tent one night. I mean, stuff happens and you have to deal with it. But mostly I can deal with that kind of stuff with alacrity. It's like, ok, this is what, this is what's happening now, deal with it. Route 69.

Ken Reinke: 22:04

You know, one of the reasons I started it on April 1st, april, fool's Day, is that you know it was a little bit crazier than even the first trip across country. It was two years crazier, you know, two years older, and it was about 700 miles further than that first one. But I can't, it's difficult to explain. When you first start off, the first six days or so I spend my time talking myself into not quitting Because it is hard and I stealth camp so I never know where I'm going to spend the night, which I like that, but it does make it a little more difficult. But then, once you get over a hump, there's a hump that you have that probably every cross country cyclist has to get over. I don't know that hump and I was at my friend's house in Mississippi and I look and I go. You know Denver's another thousand miles. It was meaningless to me. Okay, let's go A thousand miles, all right.

Tom Butler: 23:26

So what let's go. And then, where did you end up on that route? What was your final destination on that route?

Ken Reinke: 23:31

Well, I wrote a book about that, and what I talked about was I had a friend in Port Townsend, washington, so it's just a little past Seattle and so I said, well, I'm going to ride my bike over to my friend's house. It just happens to be 3,000 plus miles away.

Tom Butler: 23:52

Well, I love Port Townsend. By the way, we actually just did a camping trip not long ago where we rode part of the Olympic Discovery Trail.

Ken Reinke: 24:04

I read about that yeah.

Tom Butler: 24:06

And so that area, I think that's a fantastic place, I think, to wrap up a huge adventure across the country.

Ken Reinke: 24:16

Yeah, definitely, and I was in Port Townsend for like five days and every day was sunny. It was a really, really wonderful end to my trip.

Tom Butler: 24:27

Nice. So here you are, at 69 years old. You have dealt with the effects of polio for a long time. You're an insulin-dependent diabetic. Did you get any pushback from family?

Ken Reinke: 24:42

No, not really, because I mentioned that. My wife said, oh, that's kind of far. My wife said, oh, that's kind of far, but no, I'd already done Route 67. That was 3,000 miles, so this was just a small bit crazier. No, I had some friends tell me well, you know, if you get down the road we'll come and get you. You know, you decide to quit, we'll come and get you.

Tom Butler: 25:10

So how about your doctor? Did your doctor is? Are they fully medical staff, fully on board with with these adventures?

Ken Reinke: 25:18

I wouldn't know no, I know I don't mess with that so much, of course would. Would you know? Would anyone think that a 69-year-old riding 3,000 miles on a bicycle be a good idea? Who could approve of that?

Tom Butler: 25:39

Well, you know, I think that is an excellent observation, and one of the things that I've become more focused on recently is the aspect of a bicycle as a medical device. The truth of the matter is I am sure that you're you know, when you're riding a hundred miles a week, I mean that was having just all kinds of benefits for you, and I think that probably medical professionals are realizing more and more just how valuable that kind of activity is.

Ken Reinke: 26:15

Oh yeah, I'm sure of it. You know, I just love riding the bike. And did I mention that with the scoliosis? The bicycle is not weight bearing. It's not a weight bearing machine. I mean a weight bearing way of exercising, and so that takes all the stress off of my back. I mean, I more or less can't walk very well now because of my back, not because of my polio, but I can ride that bike.

Tom Butler: 26:46

That's fantastic. You talk about stealth camping. I'm not really familiar with that term. What does that refer to?

Ken Reinke: 26:55

So I am an inveterate stealth camper. I ride into the evening and then around 6 pm, I look for a place to hide out, whether I'm in the woods, out in the woods or in a town. Out, whether I'm in the woods, out in the woods or in a town. And by 7 pm I'm looking a little more desperately for a good hideout. I can't otherwise afford to make a trip like that. No, it's all stealth camping. And when I'm in small towns I'll look for churches with no houses behind them and then go behind that church and put my little one-man tent up. If I'm in the woods, that's not a problem. And when you're out in the Western vacant states, nobody cares. You know, you pull a little off the roads, throw your tent up, nobody cares. I've done that for all of my trips. And then every now and then, though, obviously, you need to pull into a motel somewhere. Or if I saw a big head of storms coming on my radar app, I'll just get in a motel. There's no sense fighting that.

Tom Butler: 28:09

Did you ever get kicked out of a place? Did anybody come say, hey, you can't camp here. Or was it pretty consistent that you could rely on it?

Ken Reinke: 28:17

Part of it is relying on my judgment of it, which is pretty good. But yes, one time I got kicked out from behind a church. I always tell people who are interested in stealth camping don't camp behind churches on Saturday night because people need to show up pretty early on Sunday morning. But this was a Friday night and the guy was just checking the grounds and I was all set up behind there and it was like a putting green. It was a wonderful spot. And then he called somebody and after some conversation they just said they suggested I move on.

Tom Butler: 29:03

Okay, so Christians out there, I'm just going to say, you know, I don't feel like that's a great representation kicking someone who's 69 out from a tent in the back of your church, but you know who am I to judge? But still.

Ken Reinke: 29:20

Well, indeed, I mean, you know, for whatever reason, they may have had vandalism in the past or something I don't know, and I didn't expect them to explain that to me, because, after all, I was the one taking advantage of this place. The problem with that, though, was it was pretty close to dark and virtually impossible to find another place going down the road, and I ended up in a pretty not nice spot, and, besides, I can't push my bicycle through a lot of brush. My legs just aren't strong enough. So, like always, I'm looking for even if there's woods, I'm looking for a road that crosses the ditch. No mailboxes, you know it's a little bit scientific. No mailboxes, you know it's a little bit scientific. And then the tire tracks and so forth, so all those come into my judgment on these stealth camping things.

Tom Butler: 30:22

I'm always curious about the social element there and I'm imagining that you had an opportunity to interact with a lot of people. I'm curious if you had interactions that were memorable with people when you talked about your age and what you were doing and all of that.

Ken Reinke: 30:42

Indeed, an old man riding up on a loaded bike opens people up, you know, there's nothing to be afraid of, and it just opens people up and everybody is curious and mostly kind and generous. Because I would have people, you know, because I was always up. You know, I was always up and I'd meet somebody and it's fun to talk to them. And I would be alone for very long stretches of time. But one of the things that I say is alone is not lonely, loneliness is a state of mind. Being alone is a state of being. You know, I'd be alone and then I'm fine with that, but then I'd have somebody to talk to and I'd be enthusiastic, and then they'd hand me 20 bucks and it's like, well, it's not, I don't like taking money from people, but in a way it's their way of participating and so, okay, sure you know. And then down the road I'd go.

Ken Reinke: 31:57

So I had lots and lots of very good encounters, lunches bought for me, and when I was up on the Cross America route even up there, where they see lots of cyclists, even up there, where they see lots of cyclists there were a number of times that I went to pay for my lunch and they would say it's been covered and that's somebody, that's a few people that I never even spoke with, and so there's a lot of good people out there and you know there's a few not so good ones, and thank God they're rare.

Ken Reinke: 32:38

When I was up in northern Idaho and that's anti-government, skinhead country, I don't know if you can see that I was in a restaurant having breakfast and this guy sat down next to me and it was not a friendly, it was an interrogation and it was a little bit frightening because then I got to leave this and go down the road and here's this really odd person who feels threatened by me. You know, being in that area, I don't know, I don't know, but that was really one of the worst of them. Most people were friendly and kind by far.

Tom Butler: 33:22

Well, I think it's an awesome observation. You know that that was rare. You know that's encouraging, that that's rare, and I think it's also really powerful that people were moved, Like you said, they wanted to take part in this journey that you were having and I think that really represents them being moved by hearing about your experience.

Ken Reinke: 33:47

Well, there's no question that my activity was inspiring to almost everyone I spoke to and they usually said that. They usually came around and said, wow, I'm inspired. But I was never going for that.

Tom Butler: 34:06

I was just trying to see if I could make it to Port Townsend, washington, and so it's a cool side effect and I think that what is very evident I'm sure it's evident here as I'm talking to you and I'm sure it was evident to everyone you talked to that you were enjoying yourself. You didn't feel like there was a burden on you to prove something or anything like that. This is just something that was fulfilling for you to do.

Ken Reinke: 34:36

Well, indeed, you know, it's really funny. I was in a restaurant in Montana having breakfast and then struck up a conversation with a couple that was having breakfast next to me, and that's because Herman's Hermits was on. They were playing Herman's Hermits, I mean, like that's great for us ancient folks. But they kept asking me questions about, well, what do you do if you get in trouble, an emergency situation? And I mean, I don't know. I just said you cross that bridge when you come to it, because you can't anticipate everything. You know that's impossible and, yeah, you know bad stuff is going to happen and you just have to deal with it as it happens.

Ken Reinke: 35:23

And it was really fun talking to them, and I went outside when we both left the restaurant at the same time, and I went outside and I'm getting my bike ready to go down this awesome route and I didn't know that at the time, though, of course. But then the guy that I was talking to comes back from his car and he hands me some folded money and he goes in case of an emergency. And I go I didn't even look at it, I just assumed it was a $20 bill and I go, I might buy an emergency beer with this and he said you do what you want. And then I looked they were gone. I looked, it was a $100 bill and then I realized, you know, they were concerned about emergency situation and they responded accordingly. And I'm like now they're gone. Oh wait, I you needed a bigger, bigger thanks than that.

Tom Butler: 36:24

Well, I'm sure they appreciated the comment. So you did decide to put this adventure into a book called the Road Spoke Trepidation and Tranquility on a Bicycle, Odyssey, and in that book you mentioned that a good night's rest is essential. Can you talk more about that?

Ken Reinke: 36:48

I believe that to be true. But when you're stealth camping, unless you've picked a crummy spot, you're in the tent for 12 hours and at first I could sleep the whole 12 hours. You know, early in the trip and then later on you know I probably wasn't sleeping 12 hours, but I'm in the tent for 12 hours. Well, that's a dang good rest, even if you've ridden your bike 70 or 80 miles or 100, I did that once but I'm always getting good rest. I don't know if people otherwise. You're in a campground, you've got Wi-Fi. I don't know. You stay on your computer.

Tom Butler: 37:31

You know that can't help I think that there is an element of being so focused on the destination that you can forget to take care of yourself, and I think it's actually a good thing for people to think of that. If you know you need to rest, if you're on a trip like this and you get to the point where you need to rest, then then rest well, I I'm actually anti-destination, but I'm retired, so you know I have lots of time.

Ken Reinke: 38:01

but I find that, like in those first six or seven days when your mind is trying to tell you this is too much that you're able to go, oh, my God, that's so far. I've only covered this much. You can talk yourself out of it. And so I'm all about getting over that and then letting the destination go. And that's why I was able to say in Jackson Mississippi oh, another thousand miles to Denver, all right, so what? And you get the destination. It's not like then you count. If you start calculating oh, denver, thousand miles, 50 miles a day, and blah, blah, blah. No, you're ruining your trip. As far as I'm concerned, you are destroying the essence of the trip. So that's my take on destination.

Tom Butler: 38:57

I love that. Take for sure. You talk about your limitations when it comes to climbing hills and how that factors into a trip. Can you share that here?

Ken Reinke: 39:10

Certainly. The thing is because my legs are weaker from polio and my left leg is worse than my right. I cannot grind up a hill. I can't stand up in the pedals and I've never been able to Well, maybe when I was a kid, but no longer. I cannot stand up in the pedals. So I and the Surly has 30 speed. So it's got some really good granny gears. But when I'm at that bottom gear and there's nothing left, I have to stop and get off the bike and push the bike to the top of the hill and, yes, I walk my bike quite a bit.

Tom Butler: 39:52

The other thing that I think about when you say that is I imagine if you're going to a pretty steep grade and you're in your lowest gear, I imagine that you're going pretty slow. And you're going pretty slow with a bike that's pretty loaded down. Is that a dynamic? Is it hard to keep the balance going with a bike that's so loaded down at that slow speed?

Ken Reinke: 40:18

Yeah, yes it is. You're absolutely right that it's a problem. And so on the steeper hills I have to step off earlier and walk. But the other thing is I cannot start my bicycle on any upward slope. I have to be on level ground or pointing downhill. So on the high hills, when I'm trying to get over a pass, I have to walk. And then when I decide that okay, I can try and ride again, I have to go out into the road and ride perpendicular across the road to start and then turn uphill and you know, walking the bike again. It's just the way that I have to approach hills. I'm stuck with that. So in essence, that's just one more issue. You know, I don't want to call things problems, I want to call them. This is part of what's in my book that things aren't problems, that things aren't problems, they're situations, and you just deal with them. When you call them a problem, you start putting a negative context on it and that just that also destroys the essence of the trip.

Tom Butler: 41:42

Again, I love the fact and I think this comes back to your mindset as an adventurer is that these are things that you enjoy the challenge of finding a solution and the energy I bet that comes from when you've you've found a way to overcome a challenge my book is about more than a bicycle book.

Ken Reinke: 42:09

It's a lifestyle book, but it is about how to get out of your own way. We live in a world that suggests that these situations are problems and that adds the negative load. But that negative load is what you're putting in your own way.

Tom Butler: 42:33

If you know what I mean, you know you're making it worse because you're overthinking the, that it's a problem and it's never a problem, it's just a situation yeah, you say that and I think that that is like a great outcome for people reading the book is to really hear that philosophy of life, and have you always been someone that's sought out deeper meanings to things?

Ken Reinke: 43:07

Yes, I mean, I've always lived in a world of what exactly is this all about? And trying to figure that out, and I this is. I hope this doesn't sound too weird, but I think giving things meaning is the best step backwards, and that I don't know.

Tom Butler: 43:30

I don't know if I can condense this you don't have to condense it, Just yeah, just go into it.

Ken Reinke: 43:39

So I had no intention of writing a book. I think I've always had a book in me, but I had no intention of writing a book. And I came back from Route 69 and a very good friend of mine, he said well, how did you do it? How did you ride your bicycle across the whole dang country at 69 years old, while the rest of us are sitting watching our televisions? And I'm like, okay, so how did I do it?

Ken Reinke: 44:08

And that's what I tried to work into the book this idea that you know we get in our own way and we can do so much more than we think we can, and our minds are what gets in our way, not our circumstances, our minds. So that's what I'm trying to address in that book. It's actually I wrote it in the style of my favorite book, which is Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, and that book is pure genius. I can't say mine's pure genius, but it's in that style. I can't say mine's pure genius, but it's in that style, and it's with his kind of approach to life, which turns out to be more of an Asian kind of approach to life. But neither he nor I are Asian.

Tom Butler: 45:05

I think that probably truth is truth, right, mm-hmm? Yes, so you've experienced things in your life where that connection to the world is deep, and I think that's what you're explaining.

Ken Reinke: 45:30

Well, and I honestly so. I would love to say that it is so deep that it leaves the mind out and it's a skill and, honestly, I've pursued it for a long time and that's, I think, why I was able to ride my bicycle across the country at 69. I'm just trying to get that into the book that you know I am the best example in the world of how it's more now I'm going to say mental, but it's more mental than it is physical. I mean, if you saw me walk, you wouldn't even believe that I could ride from here to Georgia, right, but our minds get in our way and that's what I discuss in the book. How can we do that? How can we keep that from happening too much?

Tom Butler: 46:18

I think that's a great framing of the book. As I read it, what I was seeing was there is, in the book, you know, this question of how did you do it. You get to see kind of some practical things that unfold, you know, as you're making your way along. But then there is that element of there is a mindset that you approach adventure with that is you know at. You know, for you, I feel like it's more about the mindset than having a plan. It's more about experiencing the moment and overcoming things in the moment than it is about knowing what's going on from time to moment to moment.

Ken Reinke: 47:12

Well, absolutely, I mean I don't. I honestly don't believe that you can plan all that well anyway. I mean, we do our vacations and stuff, but no, it is it's living in the moment is the only way to go. But we're never taught that. And so that's what I'm addressing in my book, because I mean when I meet somebody, I'm happy to see them, and I don't even know them. You know, you can distill it down to being pretty satisfied most of the time.

Tom Butler: 47:50

I love it. I'm loving this conversation. I love that you're getting into kind of your view of the world and things like that. And so I'd like to go back to where you talked about. You know people giving you assistance along the way. I think there's, you know there's several different ways that people supported you. I'm wondering, from a philosophical perspective, what you think about that connection between people when people come together to assist each other like that.

Ken Reinke: 48:24

I think that that's way more available to us than we realize because we're making snap judgments all the time. But if you're in the moment, right now, what is happening, You're dealing with that and you know I don't know. So some people say maybe it's me. You know, I don't know, so some people say maybe it's me. But the thing is I feel like all of my routes have been stippled with wonderful human connections, and it's usually people I don't know, but it's just I don't know. You can be more open if you're living in the moment. I don't suffer much fear, or almost none, which is part of that living in the moment. If you know that whatever happens in this moment, you're going to be able to deal with it, wow, bring it on deal with it.

Tom Butler: 49:30

Wow, bring it on. I feel pretty confident that you would agree with the statement that living in the moment like that makes a more authentic connection possible absolutely it's.

Ken Reinke: 49:39

It's the only thing that makes a more authentic connection possible to not show up with a ton of judgments. I lived the normal life a long time and I know what that's like and it's hard to avoid because it's thrown at us from every direction all the time. In fact, I think most people would just go what's this guy talking about? He must be an idiot. But because the norm is so not great, if you ask me. That's why I wrote that book, maybe to edge people. Maybe somebody can read that book and get edged out of that norm, and I'd love to think that my book would help anybody who read it. But it's well-reviewed on Amazon, you know. So people who bother to write a review have mostly written good ones, and I get connections with people a lot about the book and I get to hear how it helped them, and that's exactly what I was going for when I wrote that book.

Tom Butler: 50:53

Well, and good on you for putting that out there, because I think that that's a great message. So thank you for doing that.

Ken Reinke: 51:01

Well, thank you for your close reading of the book. I mean, I really appreciate that and so your questions, you know, are fantastic.

Tom Butler: 51:12

Well, thank you, that's awesome. Okay, I want to ask you this question Based on our dialogue here. I am so interested in you sharing your perspective on this, and that's what does the future hold for you when it comes to cycling?

Ken Reinke: 51:32

Okay, so I am definitely backing down the ladder in terms of cycling. I just set out this spring I was going to cross the country one more time, but I set out and just couldn't do it. You know, it was just too much. In fact I even want to say that it wasn't fun. Now I know how much mental goes into that, but you know I can't push off with my left leg anymore, so I have a couple of zero mile an hour crashes, you know where you don't quite get started and fall down. Well, I don't need to be out in the world doing that.

Ken Reinke: 52:14

So I'm backing down the ladder so far that I'm even thinking maybe an electric bike is in my future, so that I all I need is help getting the started. You know, the riding I don't. I still don't think I'll have any problem with, but that getting started and stopping, but also with my scoliosis, sleeping in a tent, getting off the ground and stuff, all of that has become more difficult. Now would I love to go across the country again. Obviously, you know, this spring I tried it and I made it 450 miles. Obviously, you know, this spring I tried it and I made it 450 miles. But then I just rented a car and came home with my stuff.

Tom Butler: 52:53

Uh, you know, that's no longer in the stars for me well, here's what I love about this conversation with you, in particular one is that, your mindset being what it is, there is a healthy aspect to you saying you. You know what. I could try to force myself. I could try to grit my teeth and get through the pain, but the truth of the matter is I want this to be something that enhances my life, and at this point it doesn't feel like it's enhancing my life.

Ken Reinke: 53:28

Well, I mean, that's really true. I don't know. So really, the true answer to your question what's in the future? I don't know, and I'm going to cross that bridge when I come to it. Also, I can still ride around, we'll see. We'll ride around, we'll see.

Tom Butler: 53:50

And so the other direction I want to go with this is share with us how old you are now 73. Okay, so at 73, kind of considering some power assist or considering maybe another adaptive form of cycling. Talk to me about that. Does that seem like a step backwards? Does it not seem like the same kind of thing to you?

Ken Reinke: 54:22

Yeah, a little bit it does feel like a step backwards, but it's time. It's time for that and, uh, like, I have a hard time getting my leg over my surly middle bar and the seat, you know that's gotten even, that's gotten harder, and so I think, well, maybe I should just get a step through bike, but that won't solve the problem with not having the strength to push a load. So I think, no more loaded bike tours and, frankly, can't afford a supported tour, but maybe some little supported trips or something. So, even around here, a lot of times I ride the same routes. Can you imagine I mean riding a hundred miles a week how many times I've been over the same routes here.

Ken Reinke: 55:18

Having done that for years, I always look forward to if my wife's going someplace. She can take me and my bike and drop me off so I can travel some new routes. So you know there's solutions. Another thing, though I have done some speaking engagements about my book and stuff like that, and one time a woman about my age. She was talking about her swimming coach way back when, about her swimming coach way back when, and she said that the coach said it's 90% mental and the other 10% is mental and I love that because I used to say it's 80% mental.

Ken Reinke: 56:00

But now it is 100% mental so just fun.

Tom Butler: 56:06

Well, I am asking you to do me a favor, and that is keep me posted on your decision making as time goes on here. If you decide to get a bike that has pedal assist, I'd love for you to keep us updated on your thinking with that and your decision. Would you do that for me?

Ken Reinke: 56:30

Sure, I'd be happy to. I really enjoy your podcast and I like your approach to bicycle as medicine or I forget how you put it as a medical device, as a medical device. I think it definitely is as a medical device.

Tom Butler: 56:48

I think it definitely is. Well, ken, this has been so fun. I was looking forward to this and you just delivered a really fun conversation, and I really appreciate that. And I hope that. I know I don't hope in your case. I know that you, because the way you approach things, you're going to find some really fun ways to keep active, maybe discover cycling in a different way or something like that, or pedaling in a different way, and so I'm just looking forward to seeing more about your adventures in the future.

Ken Reinke: 57:26

Well, thank you so much for your interest. This has been fun for me.

Tom Butler: 57:30

Good, good, all right, thanks again, and we'll talk again some other time.

Ken Reinke: 57:36

Excellent, bye now.

Tom Butler: 57:46

I'm so curious to see where Ken goes with his cycling from here. I'm even hopeful that cycling over 60 will be able in some way to play a role in Ken's cycling future. I keep thinking about what it takes to just ride off without a plan, like Ken did it. It seems like one of the calculations is that you can rely on people being decent. I feel we're being constantly pumped with fear tactics. These days.

Tom Butler: 58:08

It seems like there's a constant stream of messages that the world around us is extremely dangerous. People being decent. I feel we're being constantly pumped with fear tactics. These days Seems like there's a constant stream of messages that the world around us is extremely dangerous and we need to be saved from it. Feels like that fear is being used to control people. And then you have the experience of people like Ken, who say that it's rare to meet someone who isn't interested in being kind. Maybe our neighbors aren't so scary and maybe, instead of being afraid, we can focus on being kind and caring ourselves. My hope is that all of us have opportunities to interact with someone like Ken on some journey, so that we have the opportunity to be a friendly source of support to someone else. I know that I'll be looking for those kinds of interactions, whether I'm on the bike or off, and remember, age is just a gear change.