Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season 3, episode 26,. The Iron Horse Gravel Ride, and I'm your host, tom Butler. This weekend we are doing our first ride on the Olympic Discovery Trail. We're only doing a short section of 10 miles next to Lake Crescent near Port Angeles, washington. Riding the Olympic Discovery Trail is one of the goals that I had set for this season of the podcast and I'm really looking forward to it. Eventually, I want to do all 137 miles of the trail in one trip. This trip is the first time Kelly will be riding this year and I'm looking forward to us getting back on the road together. We have decided that for now, she is going to get the most enjoyment out of doing paved, dedicated trails and staying off the road. Of course, that still gives us plenty to explore.

Tom Butler: 1:00

Like most people, kelly and I have a struggle between our desire to be out on some adventure with the reality that we have so many other things to do on the weekends. For example, we tend to garden that isn't on our property, and weekends are prime gardening time. So even though we should probably be putting plants in this weekend, we're off to experience the wilderness. For me, one of the hardest aspects of staying active is simply pushing back other tasks. Now the truth is, we actually don't have a lot of the demands that many people have, and we're lucky in that way, and staying active is a health necessity for me now. So skipping cycling is like skipping surgery or some other life-saving treatment. Both Kelly and I see it as that important, and sometimes that still is not enough and something gets in the way. I believe we aren't even close yet to building a society here in the US where activity is valued as it should be. I'm hoping that what we are trying to build here locally with Cycling Over 60 will contribute in some way to shifting the social norms around activity. Riding with my family is extremely important to me, staying active, and Kelly understands that and feels the same way. This makes it important to make riding together as enjoyable as possible. Pedal assist is a huge reason that we can ride more together. Kelly is never going to put in the miles that I put in, and it's great that pedal assist helps us stay together.

Tom Butler: 2:19

As I mentioned, we are looking for ways that we can avoid roads. We just don't like interacting with cars. Paid bike trails are one way of doing this, but we want to try doing more gravel rides. In order to do this, I think we're going to need to get Kelly a different bike. We still need to experience more gravel to really know for sure, but it seems like her cruise bike is going to bounce her around too much on gravel. She got the cruise bike because she was uncomfortable in a normal cycling position, so we are going to have to look hard for something that works for her.

Tom Butler: 2:49

Currently, I think that we'll try a bike that has front suspension and put a red shift suspension seat post on it. I haven't actually heard from anyone who uses a suspension seat post, but I am hopeful it will help. If you or someone you ride with uses one, drop me a text. I would love to know if people find them helpful. I would love to know if people find them helpful.

Tom Butler: 3:10

One of the factors that we could be dealing with is tariff pricing on new bikes. Bike Retailer, an industry news source, recently reported that Specialized Bicycles informed retailers that they will list an additional tariff charge on a separate line item on invoices for at least one of their bikes after May 1st. Of course, that probably means that tariff surcharge will be passed on to the customers. I guess they didn't get the memo that China was paying all the tariffs. I hope that we don't find that all bike prices are being adjusted to account for the trade war. One of the more intriguing options I've seen is the Canyon Grizzle OnFly. It is a front suspension e-gravel bike with a seat post that is like a leaf spring. We're definitely checking that out and we're only beginning to figure out what we need to consider when we're looking at bikes.

Tom Butler: 3:58

This spring I've been doing mostly flat routes, but that is going to have to change so I can be ready for some of the rides I'm doing this summer. I feel some confidence with this now because I'm going into my third year of riding hills to get prepped for STP, but I still don't look forward to the physical pain I feel while climbing. If you are someone that enjoys that kind of challenge, I tip my hat to you. It'll be interesting to see if my legs adapt to climbing faster this year. It's nice that I have some data from the last two years so that I can compare. However, the first year I was on a different bike and the climbing experience was quite different.

Tom Butler: 4:32

I recently ran across an article online that said that hills are not harder than cycling on the flat. The word not was all in caps, so I guess that shows they are really serious about that statement. The article is an older one, but I wanted to check out what they had to say. Here's the gist of the argument Power is power, so if you are doing 150 watts going up a hill, it is the same as doing 150 watts on the flats. The author's approach to climbing hills is simply getting into a lower gear and staying at the same wattage.

Tom Butler: 5:02

Obviously there's some validity to that point, but the logic seems to break down in a couple ways for me. First, when I'm on a flat, I'm pushing 200 pounds forward and that means if I ease off the pedals, I keep going for a while because of momentum. If you ask AI about it, you get a very complicated formula that makes some assumption and spits out formula that makes some assumption and spits out 896 feet of coasting if I hit 15 miles per hour before letting off the pedals. I doubt I will try to confirm that, but I do know. If I'm on a 10% grade or higher and I stop pedaling, I coast approximately zero feet. That makes a big difference, no matter what gear I'm in. A second issue is that when I get above a 7% grade, matter what gear I'm in. A second issue is that when I get above a 7% grade I'm already in the lowest gear I have on the Roubaix. I guess you could argue that I might need to change gearing in that case. But there's also an issue of going so slow that I start to lose the ability to steer.

Tom Butler: 5:56

For now it seems like climbing hills is definitely going to be harder than riding on a flat for me. I am quite curious about what power I'm putting out on some of the climbs I do, but I currently don't have any plans to buy something that would help me figure that out on my road bikes. I got an email from Paul Tomei at Cascade Bicycle Club that they are adding another gravel ride option for this summer called the Iron Horse Gravel Ride. It sounds like a fantastic ride and I wanted to have someone from Cascade on to talk about it. Fortunately, liz Lunderman, the relatively new events director at Cascade Bicycle Club, agreed to come on. I'm so glad she did because it gave me an opportunity to get to know her a bit and ask about the ride. I like bringing on Cascade Bicycle Club leaders, because I think people in the cycling community can glean some really good ideas from the work that they do. Here's my conversation with Liz. I am pleased to welcome Liz Lunderman from Cascade Bicycle Club to join me today. Thanks for being here, liz.

Liz Lunderman: 7:03

I'm so happy and excited to be here with you, Tom.

Tom Butler: 7:06

You are relatively new to Cascade Bicycle Club and the club recently announced what I think is an exciting new ride, so I thought it would be great to bring you on to learn a bit more. Now I'm going to start with a question that I typically start with, and that is what are your earliest memories of the bicycle?

Liz Lunderman: 7:24

I have been going back into my memories. My first memories are in Germany. My dad's in the military, so I was born in Japan, lived in Germany and that's where I started on the little trike. But one of the more significant early memories is in the summer, during my high school experience. I told my mom I didn't want to go to summer camps and I just wanted to stay and ride bikes with my friends. And so for the whole summer it was a whole crew of us and I have never felt more giddy, powerful, just rolling around the town of Manlius with my friends and there was an old stickly factory for furniture making and behind there there was a little forest and they had jump lines and trails back there and we'd all watch the guys hit the jumps and my girlfriends and I would sit there and just watch them and be like, oh, that's not for us, we're going to sit over here.

Liz Lunderman: 8:22

I still like older me kicks myself and I wish that I got in there with the guys when I was young and learned how to jump. Yeah, and then after that high school summer, cruised around on. It was a like a walmart bike and I remember it had the, the frame that didn't connect to itself and then it had a coil shock on it. It's very interesting, yeah, but then I took a hiatus from biking for a little while. I decided to start traveling when I went to college and, yeah, I didn't really pick up a bike until I moved to washington okay.

Tom Butler: 8:57

Several times people have talked about early experiences and I love this picture of kids kind of in a group, out, you know, roaming around, doing stuff, having mobility together. I just think that's a wonderful image of the bicycle. Yeah, it's very like stand by me now and then feel yeah, and I hope that you know these days girls are looking at that and going, I'm going to, I'm going to go out on that track you know I hope we're getting that message out.

Liz Lunderman: 9:30

Oh yeah, yeah, that's been throughout from college until now. A huge part of my career has been dedicated to getting more women and non-binary folks out on bikes, so that little me watching those boys hitting the jumps. We have more girls and non-binary folks getting out there and hitting those.

Tom Butler: 9:52

How long have you been at Cascade and what attracted you to the organization?

Liz Lunderman: 10:20

I haven't been at Cascade very long. My start date was January 9th, 2025. So this year and previously I was with Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance, and my mission my personal mission in life is to make the trails and the road feel like home for everyone on a bike, and with Evergreen I learned so much with the organization. My closest friends are there, I have some chosen family there and when I was looking at Cascade Bicycle Club and the event director position became open, I realized that my passion for mountain biking could be elevated to more cyclists. So gravel riding, road cycling and Cascade's mission to get everyone on bikes is amazing. That's like the core of what we're doing over at Cascade and what I want to see the world kind of move towards as well.

Liz Lunderman: 11:25

So, yeah, I decided to apply for the position and I couldn't be happier here with the Cascade family. They've been so warm and welcoming. The events team is incredible. I wish I could introduce them all to everyone because they're so passionate and hardworking and they really believe in the mission. So it's really cool. I do have some big shoes to fill, though Dave Douglas building up the events season for Cascade the past 53 years. It's pretty awesome to have him as a mentor and learn from what he's been able to create.

Tom Butler: 12:03

Now I'm thinking you had heard of Cascade. You'd seen Cascade in the past, so what had you heard that you thought was awesome as far as Cascade as a community of cyclists?

Liz Lunderman: 12:20

I think for a lot of people I'm in the same boat where our first touch point for Cascade was the Seattle to Portland ride, scp, and I had a roommate at the time in Seattle who was like Liz I know it's last minute, but do you want to do this 200 mile bike ride from Seattle to Portland? And I said hell, no, horrible idea. And I trained up for it. It did get me to their website and start poking around and all their free group rides and their other events like the chili hilly and RSVP, and so that was kind of the first time I had even thought about oh, could I ride my bike 200 miles? And now that's a goal of mine, right?

Tom Butler: 13:08

so nice, so are you pursuing that this year?

Liz Lunderman: 13:12

oh, I hate to admit it, but as the event director, I have to run the event, you know I mean, that's the, that's the hard thing about it, right?

Tom Butler: 13:20

so many cool things to do, and then you're really busy those days yeah, yeah, uh, one of One of our event producers, sarah Manti.

Liz Lunderman: 13:27

she's leading the charge and the event director for STP, and I'll be supporting her and learning about the ins and outs of the event, how we're going to elevate it for 2026. But one year I feel like, as the event director, I need to go ride it and experience it myself.

Tom Butler: 13:48

I think that's right.

Liz Lunderman: 13:50

Yeah.

Tom Butler: 13:51

STP is a large event and there's a lot of I think impressive is the right word for events like RSVP and the tours and stuff. What are some of the categories of resources that you need to have to pull off rides like that?

Liz Lunderman: 14:10

first it's we're always asking the question of permitting, location and parking, and so those are the three main pieces of building an event. And if it's even possible and with stp it's had this amazing growth and post-covid we're seeing. We're starting to see numbers of like this year. We're about to have our largest stp post-covid, so we're anticipating over 5 000 riders coming out and and this is like kind of the boring part of event management right, it's the permitting, having the going out to do the pre-rides. We have a full team that goes in and looks out routes and there might be construction this year and so we'll have to do a reroute and over the years we have this really awesome event storage unit where we've built out and Dave has done so much work to get it to this point all of our event supplies.

Liz Lunderman: 15:10

And I got to tell you some of the most grueling days isn't the permitting but it's the packing the trucks to get everything out and then unloading the trucks after four days of putting on an event. So there's a lot that goes into the event planning and the rewarding part is what I like to call the event glow after, where you think about all of those serendipitous moments that people have had, whether it's connections with each other on the event, or they had a flat or some sort of mechanical issue that they had to push through and it was challenging but they did it. Or like the person who does the 200 mile bike ride in one day for STP and is so proud of themselves and um, it's those, those moments. That really is why I love event management and being here with Gascade. Does that answer the question?

Tom Butler: 16:08

Yeah, yeah, I'm going to tell you a story.

Liz Lunderman: 16:11

Okay.

Tom Butler: 16:11

But I'm actually trying not to get emotional about this.

Liz Lunderman: 16:15

Oh, that's okay, we like being emotional over here.

Tom Butler: 16:20

I want to like add to that. You know, I did my first STP at 60, where Cycling Over 60 kind of was launched around that whole thing. Thank you, thank you. She's clapping for I know you can't see, but she's clapping for me, which is nice. I actually didn't think I was going to make it when I started training. I'm like you know, this is probably too much. And my wife was like this might be too much to you. Know, you haven't been on a bike for a long time. You know Like this might be too much to you. Know, you haven't been on a bike for a long time, you know. And so when I started training, it was a nice goal, but I didn't know if I would make that goal. And then so when I did it, it was really powerful.

Liz Lunderman: 16:56

It's really awesome, Tom, and incredibly inspiring.

Tom Butler: 16:59

Yeah, my wife and my daughter were there welcoming me and I'm trying I'm holding back tears right now, everyone knows, but it was like in my life, it just felt like such a significant step to make. So you know, that's part of that I think that you're talking about is those experiences in what you guys unlock for people to experience. It's wonderful.

Liz Lunderman: 17:29

It's the sense of pride and that accomplishment and knowing that and for me, when I started, when I moved here and we can get into this story a little bit later, but I started enduro racing with Cascadia, the Cascadia Dirt Cup. And enduro you bike up the mountain and then you're timed on the stages going down on these mountain bike trails. An enduro you bike up the mountain and then your time down the stage is going down on these mountain bike trails. And my first race I was so nervous and so terrified and I'm pushing myself up the hill and in my head I'm thinking of all the women in my life who are cheering me on, like my friend Mandy, who I met in college, and she, her and I have done some crazy outdoor adventure stuff, like we did a Grand Canyon backpacking trip over in the winter for New Year's. And all of my sturdy bitch racing friends over at the Sturdy Dirty and my friend Chrissy over at Donut Squad.

Liz Lunderman: 18:22

And cycling, whether it's road cycling, gravel cycling, mountain biking, anything and it's that community and the connection and those types of people that are cheering you on and listening to you, tom, like your wife and kids supporting you at the end of that ride. What a powerful moment in memory. And it's really. It brings people together. So two wheels, man, it's. There's a reason why it feels like a cult sometimes. I love it Feels like a cult sometimes.

Tom Butler: 18:52

I love it. Now it seems like you've been focused a lot on outdoor experiences, and how did that interest come about?

Liz Lunderman: 19:01

When I was really young I was 14 or so and a friend's mom took my friend and I out to Mount Phelps in the Adirondacks and I had no idea what a hike was, and it was on the cusp of winter and I had brought my tennis shoes and jeans you know, hoodie and we start on the hike and there's massive puddles like total snow on the mountain. My tennis shoes are going to get wet and we put plastic bags on my feet and duct tape them around my leg and then I slipped them back into the tennis shoes and we put plastic bags on my feet and duct tape them around my leg and then I slipped them back into the tennis shoes and her mom was like all right, we're doing this, we're still going, and we get up to the top and it's this beautiful, sunny winter wonderland and on the way down we're sliding down the trail on our butts because it's all the snow and this was like Disneyland. For me. It was incredible and I think it goes back to that sense of pride and accomplishment and I was hooked from there. And so in college I built out a nonprofit inspired by Lindsay Dyer. She's a big skier and she came out with the film Pretty Faces and when I watched it I was like, wow, look at all these bad-ass women getting out there doing this for themselves. And so that inspired me in college to start Women in Wilderness. And it was helping connect young women in rural communities to outdoor experiences like knolls and outward bound or summer camps where they wouldn't have had the opportunity before to do that.

Liz Lunderman: 20:35

And I was studying genomics at the time, so big science lab nerd. And I remember sitting there right before I was about to go study abroad in Vietnam and being like do I want to be in a lab the rest of my life? I'm really drawn to outdoor experiences. They've changed me. And so in Vietnam, I didn't tell anyone and I applied for Peace Corps in Tanzania and I was accepted. Well, I told my mom, she just broke down crying. She was like, please just stay on this continent, Don't go, don't leave me. But that was my kickstart into the nonprofit world. Well, this was more government work and service focused, but it relates a lot to nonprofit mission driven work and I was hooked. I totally diverged from my genomics career and tried to figure out, even after Peace Corps, how I could continue being connecting or being in the outdoor industry and connecting more girls to the outdoor world, and that's where I landed, at Girl Scouts.

Tom Butler: 21:44

Going to Tanzania must have been a formative experience and I'm kind of wondering, like, what impact that has had on you now in the work that you do. Is there a way to capture that, do you think, or is it just too hard of a question?

Liz Lunderman: 22:00

So many people have asked me this.

Liz Lunderman: 22:03

And even today, what, six years later, I still haven't had a good answer. Peace Corps was the best moments of my life and some of the most challenging moments of my life, and I love Itangule, where the community that I was teaching at and Tanzania so much as such a special place in my heart, and I can't wait to go back. I really want to ride my bike. I want to do some bikepacking trips over and visit my best friend from over there, upendo. She was the second head mistress at my school. We became really close and I think it would be really cool to see Tanzania on a bike, so one day that will happen for me. Peace Corps overall. There's two things in life that has really had a significant change, those very serendipitous moments, peace Corps being one of them. And then the first time I bought my mountain bike and learned how to mountain bike.

Tom Butler: 23:03

You mentioned Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance and I'm curious what being part of that organization taught you about cycling in the Pacific Northwest.

Liz Lunderman: 23:14

I think it predates Evergreen in a little bit. My move to Washington story is one of my favorite stories and anyone who's gone to an event with Evergreen probably has heard me share this story. But I was living in California when COVID hit and my job had gone remote. There wasn't much like keeping me there in California and I bought my mountain bike. It was a high tower, santa Cruz high tower. I bought it three days before I hit the road.

Liz Lunderman: 23:45

I was going to do a road trip back to New York, stay with my sister to figure out the next move, and a friend of mine called me up and said Liz, you've never been to Washington, you should come up and visit it. I think you're going to really like it. Just, you know, from California, come up to Washington and then go to New York. We drove up, it was three days and I make it to Port Gamble on the first day and I get my mountain bike out and I was over the moon, just that feeling of excitement and thrill and seeing the Olympic mountains and the Cascade mountains all in one trip. And you're right there on the sound and the Puget sound, and my Subaru's transmission blew and I didn't want to replace it again because this would be the second time. So I scrapped the car. I stayed with my friend until I bought my Tacoma and by the time I made that decision I fell in love with Washington. I never made it to New York my parents were super sad but I fell in love with mountain biking and met my best friend, tay, and both of those things kept me here. And through there I met the Misfits, which is all women's mountain bike crew. They're more downhill gravity focused, but through there I continued to meet people that pushed me slowly and more closely to Evergreen and we, tay and I, decided to sign up for the Cascadia Dirt Cup series. So we did six mountain bike enduro races that summer and some of their funds went back to Evergreen.

Liz Lunderman: 25:21

So Evergreen started to weave its way more into my life and I'm like, okay, what is this trail organization about? They maintain trails. What does trail advocacy mean? What does advocacy in the bike industry mean? And then they put on an all women's dig day out at raging river and I was invited to go and I showed up. And it's Red Bull athletes and all these amazing women that I've been following on Instagram, all these influencers. There's like we're learning how to build trail and connecting shuttling that day and right then and there I walked up to Patrick Walker, who was the development director at the time, and I said, patrick, I want a job. And five months later I was working for them as their MarCom manager. And you really see the passion that people have for the cycling industry when you work for a bike advocacy organization. You have super volunteers who are getting out there day and day night working on the trails.

Liz Lunderman: 26:23

Our executive director, yvonne Krause at the time former executive director, yvonne Krause she was going advocating for all sorts of stuff to help push funds to get maintenance for across Washington and our trails director, david Fleischauer, really helping get new projects on the ground and also thinking about maintenance for trails. And then our crew was in charge of eventually, was in charge of eventually I moved into overseeing our largest chapter, the Cascades to Sound chapter, which is King County, snohomish County and Pierce County, and the community had started to ask for more community events. So Evergreen was really focused on the trail project side of things building new trail, maintaining trail and our community wanted community and I am biased but I believe the epicenter of community is events and our team started developing new events for Evergreen and now we have some pretty keystone events like Shovel and Shred, which is all women and non-binary dig day with Red Bull Doothy Jam, which is getting youth out to Doothy to do different education pieces and then like jumping pieces, and then also Spring Fling, which is getting over 100 folks out to help maintain the trails out there getting over a hundred folks out to help maintain the trails out there. So that was my first time taking a blank slate and saying what does the community want in terms of events, how is this team going to create it and how are we going to implement it? And then, how do we make sure that it lasts in the future?

Liz Lunderman: 28:09

And so we went in and built all the structures, designed the events from the ground up, and now that I'm at Cascade and I see those events continue to run and people really stoked about them and resharing it that's what gets me teary of. Like. This is incredible and that's what Cascade is doing as well. And this year, with our two new events coming up Revolution Ride, which is our all-women non-binary ride around Lake Sammamish, and then the Iron Horse Gravel Ride Cascade went to the community and was like what do people want? Where are our gaps, what are our needs? And so, building the women non-binary community in cycling, bringing us together. And then the iron horse gravel ride, where we're seeing so many more cyclists step into gravel riding, and providing an event that can be a touch point for, whether it's an intro to gravel ride or just highlighting the Palooza cascade trail, it's really, really cool to see us go in that direction.

Tom Butler: 29:22

Now, I don't do mountain biking, for one thing. I don't need another category of bicycling stuff to buy.

Tom Butler: 29:32

Oh, your wife is like you don't need any more bikes, tom I mean, we're looking, the next bike we're getting is getting her a bike. So it's kind of like get you a bike, get me a bike, but anyhow, um, so I don't see that scene. Um, I feel like, you know, and I'm very biased, I'm sure, but I feel like Washington is a unique place for cycling, you know, when you look at, you know, and I hope we can maintain this focus on investment in bike infrastructure, you know, and then you have Cascade Bicycle Club, which is such a huge organization, you know, and doing really great things, and I'm wondering if you would say that Washington State, from a mountain bike perspective also, is like a premier location in the United States.

Liz Lunderman: 30:30

Yeah, To me Washington is the New Zealand of the United States. Right, you have the most amazing terrain, whether it's like the Mecca of mountain biking in Washington state. Our gravel trails in Washington state are booming and so beautiful, I think, like the first ones that come to my mind the discovery trail out in the Olympic peninsula, and then the Palouse to Cascades trail, all the gravel rides up in Winthrop and and all the road access that we have. And with Washington being the top cycling state, it's so easy to say that right and get behind it, and that's why Cascades here and the largest bike advocacy nonprofit based in Washington.

Tom Butler: 31:28

Yeah, it's great. I feel really fortunate to be here, you know, because there's so much of that to enjoy.

Liz Lunderman: 31:35

And so much access. People are traveling to Washington State to bike because of the infrastructure we have here, and that's what Kade's also trying to do with Iron Horse. This is an opportunity for folks to step into Washington state not necessarily residents, but also folks who want a taste of what gravel riding is out here. When you bike up the Snoqualmie Valley, oh my gosh, it is stunning.

Tom Butler: 32:05

The scenery is incredible and so when you say, when you say, bike up the Snoqualmie Valley, you know, give a little more of that picture You're going from where to where when you're biking up the Snoqualmie Valley. Give a little more of that picture You're going from where to where when you're biking up the Snoqualmie Valley.

Liz Lunderman: 32:20

Absolutely so. For the Iron Horse we're starting in Snoqualmie and then we bike up the Snoqualmie Valley Trail to Rattlesnake Lake. Have you been to Rattlesnake Lake?

Tom Butler: 32:30

Yes, yes.

Liz Lunderman: 32:31

Yes, it's gorgeous. You're just looking out over this beautiful lake, you have Rattlesnake Ridge towering over it and the Cascades right behind you. So on this ride, that'll be the first snack break for folks to hang out and take in the scenery. And then you hop onto the Palouse to Cascades Trail and, since it's a railroad grade trail, you have this really steady incline, which so enjoyable for anyone who loves gravel riding, and you're going through this beautiful forest up the Snoqualmie Valley. So, past North Bend Pass all the way up to Snoqualmie Pass, and that's where we're going to have lunch on this ride up at HIAC, and lunch is going to be provided by Summit at Snoqualmie, which is awesome because we're helping bring in economic stimulus to our rural communities and partnering with local organizations, and that's also what part of these rides is is cultivating rural tourism as well. And so once you get hot lunch up there, you start, you continue on the Palooza Cascades Trail, and this I used to live up at Hayek.

Liz Lunderman: 33:43

I lived there for about a year and a half in this tiny little cabin and I would take my gravel bike and I would ride the length of Kachilis and back, and every single moment I'm looking around, I'm looking at the mountains, I'm looking at the lake and I'm like how do I live here? This is beautiful and I'm so excited for our riders to experience those moments. And, who knows, maybe you'll see some wildlife up there too.

Tom Butler: 34:09

That's really possible yeah so it's uh. So really, what you're talking about is so I-90 is the main thoroughfare that goes up and over the cascades. And you're, you're going, you know, not right beside that, but you're kind of going parallel. And you're, you're going, you know, not right beside that, but you're kind of going parallel, and you get to, you basically get to climb over a mountain range climb up a mountain range and it is stunning. What's the mileage on the on the route?

Liz Lunderman: 34:36

So round trip we have 62 miles and that's 31 miles the first day, 31 miles the second day and then 2,227 feet of elevation gain at a steady rate. And the cool thing about this ride is the first day is the hardest right, because you have to pedal up and you have the tunnel to go through, which is dark and you're like water cold, cool water dripping down. You might have some potholes and for this specific ride, we will be giving out lights for riders as a giveaway and part of the registration to be able to bike through the tunnel with their light. We do highly recommend adding extra lights, but that's the cool challenge of this ride right Going through the tunnel, you camp out at Whispering Pines RV Park.

Liz Lunderman: 35:26

So after you do day one and finish your 31 miles and the hill and the tunnel, super proud of yourself, you get to hang out with everyone at Whispering Pines RV Park. We're going to have a barbecue. Our executive director, lee Lambert. He's going to be slinging hamburgers and hot dogs, hanging out with folks. And then the next day you go all downhill. So you get up, you have a warm breakfast and then you head back down to North Bend and it is a fun all downhill ride, so that's what makes this ride really unique and awesome.

Tom Butler: 36:02

Some people listening might not be familiar with the Cascade Palouse Trail. I wonder if you could talk a little about that trail. You're on part of it, but there's a lot of that trail.

Liz Lunderman: 36:14

So this is a really historical trail. It used to be one of the railroads that was actively used and eventually turned into the Palooza Cascades Trail. And the Palooza Cascades Trail is 250 miles across Washington state, which is incredible. So this is just a short piece of what this trail is.

Liz Lunderman: 36:36

The Iron Horse gravel ride is going on a Monday and Tuesday, so for all the folks who are working in tech, you can play hooky for those two days and get out into nature, because this whole ride is really about immersing yourself into nature and hitting that flow meditative state on your ride. Yeah, so getting out there, away from the city, you're immersed in nature. This gravel route is really smooth. You'll need thicker tires, so if you haven't gravel road before you'll. On our webpage, we have a lot of information that can help with directing you to any tips that you'll need for gravel riding. We also have a gravel ride webinar coming up as well that you can sign up for on our website to help answer all of your questions and prep you for gravel riding. If that's something that you want to foray into, which we highly recommend, we'd love to see you there.

Tom Butler: 37:32

There is the Winthrop Gravel Tour. Talk about kind of the difference. What does this provide that you see as somewhat different from the Winthrop gravel tour?

Liz Lunderman: 37:46

Yeah, so the Winthrop gravel tour is a longer, multi-day gravel tour and with the Iron Horse this is an opportunity to do something a little smaller, so it's two days instead of three and it's also closer to the King County Seattle area, so you don't have to travel so far, and with Winthrop it's a four to five hour drive to get there and then a multi-day trip. And here, with Seattle being so close to North Bend, you get to explore your backyard and you can do it within a short hour drive from the city into North Bend. We support the ride entirely with a baggage truck, so you don't have to put anything on your bike and it's not bike packing, you get to throw it into the truck. We have all of our SAG vehicles and outriders to support with medical and minor injuries along the route, so you have a ton of support. And then, with 31 miles the first day and then 31 miles the second day, all downhill, it's really attainable for beginners. Yeah.

Tom Butler: 38:58

Yeah, I like it. So people are camping and it sounds like they're going to be kind of going to be at a place that is a campground. If I understand what you're saying, you know, like STP, where there's a lot of different ways, we've always went out, or the last two years we've went out and camping and have stayed in a hotel, or I should say I have, but this is, and then like something on STP, you're going through a lot of areas where there's mini-marts and stuff like that, and that's not, I'm sure, the Cascade Palouse Trail. You're not passing a bunch of mini-marts on the way.

Liz Lunderman: 39:51

So it seems like… no, it's passing many, many trees and, like some mountains.

Tom Butler: 39:57

Right. Logistically that seems like a very different thing to pull off than like an STP, because of the remoteness of it. I guess one of the biggest elements it's like apples and oranges STP.

Liz Lunderman: 40:15

you know, some of the biggest logistical challenges is how do you get 5,000 riders and their bikes back from Portland to Seattle? How do you get 5,000?

Liz Lunderman: 40:23

riders and their bikes back from Portland to Seattle and here for the iron horse. Some of the biggest logistical challenges are permitting working with state parks a wonderful partner of ours to get things all settled in, and the cool thing about this ride is there's access points for any type of emergency, for our volunteers to be able to support folks with mechanicals or whatnot, and also prepping folks for the tunnel and having them understand that it is going to be pitch black. You might not have any sense of where you're at, and it's one of those experiences that you can only get here. I think the first longest tunnel is over in Europe and then here it's the second one in the entire world so that you can bike through. So it's good. That's a really cool experience to have. Our team is so excited for this event because it's also an event that we want to do right, so we're really looking forward to sharing it with other people.

Tom Butler: 41:37

Well, I just love it that that part of Washington, that part of our region, is being promoted and people can experience it, because it is unique and it is cool. I'm a little bit nervous about the heat. Have you guys talked about that? Do you think the elevation will mediate that a bit, or what have you been talking about that?

Liz Lunderman: 42:05

will mediate that a bit, or what do you? What have you been talking about that? Yeah, with all of our snack stops and lunch stops, we have hydration and food there for folks and you're in the shaded gravel trail right. You're deep in the woods as you're going through up the valley and that's going to provide a lot of maybe some yeah, some shade and whatnot. But we have a ton of support for riders on on the trail and when I've biked out there in the summer, especially along Kachilis, you're pacing yourself. Well, you have a lot of people around you, especially with a cascade event and 200 plus riders gravel riding with you. You're not alone and even though it's you're, you're pushing your body and you might feel that heat. You have so much support and you get to suffer together.

Tom Butler: 42:58

I like it. That's part of community building.

Liz Lunderman: 43:01

Yeah, that camaraderie. Oh, we did this ride and we're so dusty and we can't wait to tell.

Tom Butler: 43:09

Lee, we want a hamburger and a seltzer.

Liz Lunderman: 43:12

at the end of this ride there's lakes you can jump into as well, you could get into Rattlesnake Lake, cachilis Lake, cool off a bit and keep on going.

Tom Butler: 43:24

And those lakes are cold. I think right.

Liz Lunderman: 43:26

They're pretty chill. Yeah, they're definitely cooler than the air.

Tom Butler: 43:31

Yes, now that sounds awesome.

Liz Lunderman: 43:34

Yeah.

Tom Butler: 43:35

You talked about some information on the website. If someone's which I think is possible that there's people that don't camp with their bike One, are there some options? Could they bring a motor home and park it? Or is there information on the website that's going to help them understand what to bring? They don't have to pack it on their bike. There's going to be someone's going to transport that for them, but are there going to be some ways that they can get help just thinking about what they should bring for the night?

Liz Lunderman: 44:12

Absolutely. If you head to cascadeorg and under our rides and events you go to the Iron Horse Ride, there's a full frequently asked questions page. So it talks a lot about gravel riding and the question of what kind of bike do I need to be riding on, what gear should I bring with me and is this suitable for? If you're a newbie or inexperienced, is this suitable for you? And how to prep for this event? Can you use e-bike on this ride? Questions like that. And it also talks about the logistics.

Liz Lunderman: 44:45

So camping is available at the Whispering Pines RV Park, which is our official midpoint. This includes tent spaces and likely to set up multiple tents as well. So if you have any friends coming and you're like, hey, let's play hooky from work together and just say the common flu is going around and y'all come out, you can tent all together and be with friends and there's access to showers and bathrooms and other park amenities, so that's really great. You can also do an alternative where you have. There's several motels up there in Clay Elam, including the Timber Lodge Inn, the Astor Inn, and you can look into. If you are feeling bougie and want that hotel room, you can hit up those spaces as well.

Tom Butler: 45:37

It sounds like a typical Cascade ride where you guys have thought about so much. So I think that you know people can expect that go to the website and you can get a lot of information, and then, like you had mentioned, the conference calls and different ways of getting information and I, you know, or sending an email. I know that cascade is really responsive to all those things, absolutely.

Liz Lunderman: 46:03

Absolutely, and if there's any type of question that folks have and they've gone to the frequently asked questions and you just want to talk to someone on the team, including myself, you can email us and we'll respond back to you. Yeah.

Tom Butler: 46:23

What is it that you hope that riders will take away from this event? Do you see it as something that can have a lasting impression?

Liz Lunderman: 46:32

Yeah, tom, that goes back to those first moments of myself biking.

Liz Lunderman: 46:39

There's this wonderful lecture that I went to when I was working at Girl Scouts and it was called maximizing serendipity and outdoor adventure and it talked about how do you take the moments in an outdoor experience whether that's seeing an Eagle in the sky or you have a mechanical on a bike ride and then how do you turn that into ripple effects in someone's life.

Liz Lunderman: 47:05

And with the events of Cascade and specifically this ride of Iron Horse gravel ride being super unique in a very beautiful historical place in this valley, there's bound to be moments of serendipity, that, whether it's like a connection, a new friend, a new riding partner, a moment where a rider was really proud of themselves for pushing through up this huge valley and not thinking that they were able to do it and then doing it, or seeing a part of Washington that they haven't experienced before, with the support of Cascade and so many other riders, I'm hoping that folks walk away from this weekend with those ripple effects of oh.

Liz Lunderman: 47:53

Tours are now my thing. I love gravel riding. I want to go to Winthrop, I want to go to Walla Walla, I want to go to Port Townsend, I want to go to Lake Chelan, which is all of our different tours that we're going to this year, and I'm hoping that it can be a spark point for folks to find an activity that gives them meditative moments, connective moments and a space to step away from the chaos of the everyday grind and, um, it's like such a beautiful way to to experience and take up time in life.

Tom Butler: 48:32

Yeah, this might be a difficult question to to answer, but I'm wondering, if you know, there's a lot of clubs out there that aren't the size of the cast of cascade bicycle club and don't have the resources that cascade bicycle club has, and I'm wondering if there might be some thoughts that you have for smaller clubs about how can they create awesome events. You know what are some of the key things that you might think about.

Liz Lunderman: 49:06

Absolutely.

Liz Lunderman: 49:07

The first thing that comes to me is organize community rides and not just like the grassroots organization of community rides which is awesome that's how Cascade started Make them inclusive, so offering rides for different abilities, different types of folks, different types of folks and really helping bring new people into cycling.

Liz Lunderman: 49:35

Because creating those touch points for folks to step into the cycling world can create long-lasting super volunteers, members to help grow the organization long-term.

Liz Lunderman: 49:47

And I've seen smaller organizations have huge success with doing this.

Liz Lunderman: 49:54

And I don't know if you've heard of the case of the Mondays, but last year this group partnered with a rec cafe over in North Bend and they started offering group rides on Wednesdays for folks just to get out on the Snoqualmie Valley Trail and by the end of the year they're seeing between 60 and a hundred riders out there of all different skill sets and some it would be folks first time doing a group gravel ride and those little pieces of making it inclusive and a touch point for different folks but also bringing in your friends and something to do after work has really like I think that grows community and can help organizations elevate their member basis.

Liz Lunderman: 50:42

And then you have folks who can give you feedback on what they want to see and what do your members want. What do you, what does your community want in um, in being able to get together and sign up for events, which is where we ended up with our revolution ride. We had women and non-binary folks wanting a ride to connect with each other. And then the iron horse ride, where we wanted a gravel ride for folks to step into gravel and kind of test it out.

Tom Butler: 51:14

You talked about super volunteers and I think you know, and a shout out to all you super volunteers out there, you know, I think that that's such a vital part of the, you know, of any successful event, of any successful club.

Liz Lunderman: 51:28

Absolutely, and these are people who are so passionate about the cycling community that they volunteer their resources, huge chunks of their time, to support putting on these events and rides, because they believe in the mission of Cascade so much and what bicycles can bring to people's lives. And, at the end of the day, we all just want to ride bikes. It's an opportunity to do that too.

Tom Butler: 52:00

What excites you about the future of Cascade events? Is there a vision that you guys are looking at and wanting to bring about?

Liz Lunderman: 52:10

Gosh, there's so much because there's so much opportunity.

Liz Lunderman: 52:13

You know it's not lost on me that in this role I have very big shoes to fill with Dave Douglas building up the events team and the event schedule for Cascade, and so we're sitting on a lot of legacy and this is a new era for the events department at Cascade. We have a really awesome team. A lot of folks are new, coming onto the team with a lot of new ideas and I think it's starting with these two new rides and collecting our feedback and data from our members and the folks who go on our rides to be able to look at that and say in three years, and even next year, 2026, what do we want to build from there? And we really want to make it rider-centric. So, yeah, what does our community want?

Liz Lunderman: 53:05

And then we continue to tell our story so that when people step into registration and even making donations through our event registration, people can feel good about joining these because it's going back to supporting our advocacy and education initiatives. Gascade is so much more than riding your bike. It's elevating other people youth, BIPOC folks, our women, non-binary folks, rural communities to get on bikes as well. It's not, it's not just a ride. It's, it's making sure everyone else has access to bikes.

Tom Butler: 53:48

Yeah, and I love to see those things going on. You know that educational component. I think that's so awesome. So how about you personally? What are some goals that you have? Do you are you going to be taking on some challenges, or do you have future rides that you want to do?

Liz Lunderman: 54:07

Yeah, prof oh I'll go professionally my personal and professional goal is to continue to build up the women and non-binary community within cycling, and not just for creating community and space and especially with the rebel revolution ride and continuing to build off of that event, but also being able to bring communities together in that space and creating a pipeline for women into the outdoor industry, into leadership roles, and being able to be an example of that myself and share that enthusiasm and uplift other women, non-binary folks into this space.

Liz Lunderman: 54:57

Because it is incredible but younger me didn't have the role model I wanted to see. I didn't know that women I like think of that. Back to that little girl in the backyard of the Stickley factory watching guys jump and didn't have that representation. And now to to see other women in, like the live global marketing section and having Juliana be an all women mountain bike brand and women just like kicking ass, doing all these really cool things, breaking ceilings especiallyannah bergman as well with red bull, having red bull rampage go off for the first year, with women racing. We're in this really cool time where there's so much left to do and with the space here with cascade, being able to help even build that pipeline or that pathway for folks to get into the industry as well, so personally, that's where I would want to go I love it on a bike.

Liz Lunderman: 56:04

I do have a six-day trip in oaxaca coming up, that's cool. Yeah, stp is definitely on there, and some more multi-day gravel rides.

Tom Butler: 56:16

Nice.

Liz Lunderman: 56:18

Including Iron Horse. I'll be out there, so I would love to meet all of you out on the trail. Please come say hi, don't be afraid. If you see me out there, be like Liz, let's ride. I want to talk to you a little bit about something, or I want to hear your stories too. What are, what are your awesome writing stories and your goals for the for the year? So?

Tom Butler: 56:38

perfect. Well, liz, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I have to say I've become a Liz Lunderman fan over this podcast, so you know I'm glad that you're in the position that you're in. I think I'm really're in the position that you're in. I think I'm really looking forward to seeing what you're doing there at Cascade and seeing the events come about. And thanks for sharing your perspective and some of your background and just your excitement for cycling here.

Liz Lunderman: 57:07

Absolutely, tom. Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure talking with you and I think in this timeframe where screens are taking up so much of our life, social media is taking up so much of our life, the opportunity to cycle with friends and family and new people out in Washington through cascade is one of the most transformative and magical things that we could do. So I thank you so much for giving us the platform to share what we do in our story and, yeah, Well, my pleasure, and I'm sure at some event I'll get to see you and say hi in person.

Liz Lunderman: 57:48

Absolutely, I'd love it All.

Tom Butler: 57:49

Right Bye now. As a member of Cascade Bicycle Club and someone who contributes to the organization regularly, it is wonderful that we have a leader like Liz in charge of events. The whole team there obviously loves seeing people impacted by the events they do. I believe that the Iron Horse gravel ride is going to be a special experience and I just have to see if I can work it into my schedule to do the event this summer. I forgot to ask Liz during the interview if she thought the ride would fill up fast, but later she said that she thought the response of people indicated that it would most likely sell out.

Tom Butler: 58:37

I want to give you some details about the route. Ride with GPS shows that day one has 3,151 feet of elevation gain. That happens over the first 30 miles of the day. Day two has 2,227 feet of elevation gain. That happens over the first 32 miles. There are so many cool things about this ride and I really hope I can make it work. Hopefully, all of you have some exciting rides you're looking forward to this season, whether you are touring new cities or experiencing the wilderness at bike speed. I hope you have some great experiences and great people with whom to share them and remember age is just a gear change.