Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling With 60 podcast, season three, episode 25. The bike is a medical device and I'm your host, tom Butler. I'm very motivated by seeing progress in numbers. Now, I know many of you are not this way. I've talked to a bunch of people that don't like Strava or other apps that pump out numbers. These people often tell me that they just love to ride and it doesn't matter to them what Strava says. I can respect that position a lot, but that isn't true for me. I love seeing as much data as possible. Lot, but that isn't true for me. I love seeing as much data as possible. So I appreciate Ed from Pennsylvania reaching out to give me a suggestion about seeing Strava data in a different way.

Tom Butler: 0:51

Ed's message led me to search for Strava performance analysis apps and I ended up going down a rabbit hole of apps. I did find a few that I'm interested in checking out. Ed recommended an app called VeloViewer, which said it is the quote chocolate sauce for your Strava ice cream. Okay, veloviewer marketing team, you got me. It looks like. Veloviewer gives several interesting views of Strava data, plus some cool end of year infographics. It's likely that I will start using that app. They have a free plan, a pro plan and a pro plus plan. I would probably go with the pro plus plan simply because it's only around 20 pounds or $30 a year and I appreciate the development that is going into the app and I want to support it. The pro plus plan also promises a pretty interesting feature you get a quote high five down at the pub for supporting the app. Now I just need to figure out a way to get to the pub.

Tom Butler: 1:48

I'm also interested in a couple of other apps. One is Strive AI. I'm not a huge fan of AI workout assistance currently, but I'm certainly interested to see how it's evolving, so I think I'll be watching Strive AI to see what is happening. Strive AI has an interesting legal statement. You own all your data with Strive AI to see what is happening. Strive AI has an interesting legal statement. You own all your data with Strive AI. You grant them a non-exclusive worldwide license to use that content, and then that license ends when the content is deleted. The use of our data is just one of those areas that interests me about AI. In the future, I'll probably do another interview with AI, like I did in the August 17th 2023 episode. I'll wait on this, though, until there is some significant advancement in AI technology.

Tom Butler: 2:30

Another app that intrigues me is Beeminder. It's built as a social motivation app. You give Beeminder a goal and if you fall off pace they charge you money. I will put a link to a video about Beeminder in the show notes. I'm pretty sure I will end up using Beeminder, but stay tuned as I dig more into it and see how it works. I love to get text messages from listeners, and the text me link at the top of the podcast description is an easy way to do that, but a quick note on it I don't think it allows links, so if you want to send me a link, you probably have to spell it out. For example, you can spell out cyclingover60.com as cyclingover60 and then D-O-T and com. If you replace the period with the D-O-T, I will understand it.

Tom Butler: 3:17

On the topic of motivational apps, team Huffing and Puffing is working its way across the Virtual Great American Rail Trail as part of the Great American Ride fundraiser. I'm finding this to be very motivational. I'm pretty committed to helping our team to make progress. However, huffing and Puffing is 24 out of 54 teams Now. I think it would be awesome to finish in the top 10. To do that, I think we would need more riders. As a team, we've logged 452 miles so far, so we have made it to eastern Washington, because the way that we're doing, the route started on the west coast and we're almost to the Idaho border. To break into the top 10, we would need to have almost double that amount of miles. So to do that, I do think we would need others to join the team. For me personally, I'm 99 out of 338 people, so I'd like to shoot for the top 50.

Tom Butler: 4:09

Now, if you're a fan of Rails to Trails, this is your opportunity to have some fun supporting them. The Great American Ride is just $50 to join, which I see as a really fair amount to support all the work that Rails to Trails is doing. I don't see an end date for joining, so I think you can still get in. For me, it's been a really fun way to support the effort to create a bicycle highway across the US. I will put a link to the ride and the password to join the Huffing and Puffing team in the show notes. Please consider jumping in and helping us out. We still have a long way to ride.

Tom Butler: 4:42

I've decided to lock in a date for the first Cycling Over 60 annual ride. It will happen on Sunday, september 14th. There was some news this week and I think it's really safe to say the ride is going to start in Puyallup, washington. I've tried my best to make sure that that time doesn't conflict with other rides in our area. I'll be talking a lot more about the ride in the next couple of months. The ride will be free, but there won't be managed rest stops on the ride. However, there's a lot of services around the route we'll be taking. I'm still working out what is different about a Cycling Over 60 event. If you have recommendations, please use the text me link and share those with me. One of the biggest aspects of the ride is that I want people to be able to invite a friend that isn't an avid cyclist, knowing that they will enjoy the event. I am in the process of setting up a website for the ride and I will share a link as soon as it is up and ready.

Tom Butler: 5:42

The Cycling Over 60 podcast doesn't make any money and I never thought that tariffs could impact what I do here, but unfortunately the economic chaos is so great it's even impacting our little show here. I had an interview for this week set up, but the company reached out and said they were swamped with trying to figure out how to manage the tariff situation and asked to reschedule. Of course I agreed the tariff situation and asked to reschedule. Of course I agreed. So instead, this week I'm taking you with me for a meeting that I had about the local Cycling Over 60 program launching here in Pierce County, washington. I was invited to present to the board of the Tacoma Washington Bicycle Club. I see TWBC as a vital partner for helping build a local Cycling Over 60 community. It was the first time I talked about the full program and I shared with them the focus I have on the bicycle as a medical device. They are a great group of people and I was thrilled to be welcomed by them. Here's what I had to say. So I'm Tom Butler.

Tom Butler: 6:36

I have a Master's of Public Health and also a Master's in Marriage and Family Therapy, and so I got interested in looking at how social systems change behavior, and that was kind of early on in my career. I got sidetracked from that, but when I was 59 years old I ended up having several health issues. So I decided to do something different at 59 years old and that's kind of how Cycling Over 60 got started. It is a podcast. It's on basically any podcast medium you go out to, you can find Cycling Over 60. When I started looking at my health issues, I was really looking at a cluster of things that you would call metabolic syndrome now, or metabolic dysfunction now.

Tom Butler: 7:31

I've always liked cycling. It'd been about, I don't know, at least 25 years, maybe 30 years, since I've done any serious cycling. So you know, the most logical thing to do is go out and buy a new bike, which I did, and that really that new bike sent me on a new journey. I rode it. There's a fundraiser cycling for kids' cancer. I did that fundraiser. So I was trying to put in as many miles as I could in a month and I was pretty surprised at how much I could do and so I decided I'd always wanted to Seattle, to Portland. I'd never done it and I figured if I was ever going to do it I needed to do something about it. So I decided to train to do STP. I felt like there was a small chance that I would actually get enough shape to do it. But it was a good goal and I kind of needed that challenge to get me out the door and on the bike, I ended up doing STP. Probably the main reason I did STP is that my son-in-law said, hey, I'll ride it with you, and so I was on the back of his wheel for the 206 miles of the STP the first year that I did it, and so I did it at 60 years old for the first time, and that was really the genesis.

Tom Butler: 8:59

The podcast was meant to follow my journey to try to do the STP, and that was the first season of the podcast. I'm now in season three of the podcast, but it really was helpful. I knew I was going to have conversations with people that knew a lot more about cycling and training and everything than me, and so I wanted to kind of get those conversations out there for people to hear. In the process, I discovered a community, and so Cycling Over 60 is a community. It's a small community, but I'm just a lot of great people and I really enjoy it. I'm at something like 103 episodes or something like that now. So it's been really good because I've again, I've had conversations with some really awesome people and really inspirational people. What happened last fall was I started thinking about when I launched season three, I started thinking about how cycling over 60 could be something more than just a podcast and I really, by having a lot of conversations with people, I really got interested in the bicycle as a medical device. You know we think about cycling for recreation, for transportation, but I really believe that the bicycle should be seen as a medical device and I think that's linked heavily to activity being medically vital, and so that's really kind of the genesis.

Tom Butler: 10:43

And for me, diabetes is an issue. Now when you talk about diabetes we mostly think about blood glucose. That is, diabetes is looking at the level of glucose in our blood. But really that glucose level is a late indicator of issues and you can have metabolic issues long before it starts showing up in an A1C. There's a physician by the name of Gerald Shulman and he's a researcher at Yale looks at diabetes. His opinion is that 50% of people are insulin resistant. So 50% of people have a difficulty react their cells reacting to insulin so that they're getting glucose out of their blood. And this really comes from research from college students and he's saying in that population you start seeing insulin resistance. It first shows up in muscle tissue. It's a pretty dramatic thing to think about that. You've got college students that are already showing signs of insulin resistance. So his comment is that physical activity is vital to not experience the consequences of insulin resistance, even when you're as young as 20 years old.

Tom Butler: 12:10

For me, I have an issue where my pancreas has been partially destroyed by something, and so I only have about 20% of functioning of my pancreas.

Tom Butler: 12:21

So, for me, everything that I do is focused on how can I make my cells as sensitive to insulin as possible, and so that's my journey. Again, the bicycle, to me, is the primary medical device that I have in order to do that. Every time I go out for a bike ride, it keeps me from someday having to do dialysis or something that's a consequence of my glucose getting out of whack. But also, you know, obesity. You know, obviously. We know obesity is a big issue, and the visceral fat is the biggest importance as far as obesity is concerned. And if you're not aware of that term visceral fat it's really important to find out what that is. A bicycle when we start looking at obesity and we start looking at fat, we really want to burn fat, and so a bicycle is really great because we can vary the resistance, we can really dial in fat to get in a fat burning mode. I'm curious has everybody here been cycling for like all your life?

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 13:27

any, anybody take it up later on, or I used to bicycle when I was a kid, okay, but for many years in between then and what about 10 years ago?

Tom Butler: 13:38

okay. Okay, you know I didn't do a lot of bicycle.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 13:40

Yeah.

Tom Butler: 13:40

Okay, until Ray talked me into it. Okay, cool.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 13:43

Well, fantastic, good for Ray. I started about 40 years ago, when I was in my 40s. Okay, okay, nice 40 something.

Tom Butler: 13:52

Yeah, so the earlier we start and the more we stay with it, then that changes a lot of things For me, starting at 59, then there's the impact of that, and so that variable intensity is something that was very important to me as I started out and has continued to be important. Cardiovascular health I won't go into a lot of this because I think a lot of people know kind of this is. A bicycle can impact these things. But atherosclerosis there's a lot that we're learning about the buildup of plaque that has to do with maintaining really healthy energy utilization. So if you have high glucose levels, then you're at risk for atherosclerosis and so really it's a big part of it is energy utilization. Again, the bicycle is excellent for that.

Tom Butler: 14:49

One of the things that if you do much reading on health you hear a lot about is strength as a measure of longevity, and so I just put a little blurb in here from a study the risk of dying during the study period dropped by 30%, so that's a pretty massive outcome, and that was 115,000 people ages 65 and older. If you're interested, you can see the reference here to that. But there's just no question now that getting stronger is linked to longevity, and I'll talk a little bit more about that later. Immune function super important. You know when we talk about can the bicycle impact health? Is bicycle a medical device, which I argue it is then obviously we can look at the netherlands and say, okay, this is a culture that is does a lot of biking. Does that show up as far as health outcomes are concerned? And so this is another study. There's at the end there's a link to the study. So time spent cycling was about 75 minutes per week for Dutch adults age 20 to 90. So that's pretty fantastic. The level of cycling was fairly stable over adulthood and reached its peak around 65 to 70 years of age. It'd be wonderful to have that and then start a decline after 80 years, which I'd like to see that not happen.

Tom Butler: 16:28

And this is a little bit older of a study I think it's 2015. So I don't know what things have changed, but in a population of 18 million, an estimated 6,500 deaths are prevented annually as a result of cycling. That's what they estimated, which would be a translation to the US population to 108,000 deaths prevented each year. In Pierce County we'd be looking at 335 deaths prevented. We just took up cycling and stayed with it, and that's compared to 87 traffic deaths in the county. So it's a significant impact as far as preventing death is concerned. And then there was an estimated in 2015 that the Netherlands saved 19 million euros a year in health care costs. So that was more than a dollar per person a year. That's just talking about health care spending.

Tom Butler: 17:27

So, again, taking on the bicycle as a medical device definitely see an impact in the health of the population. So e-bikes, of course. That brings an element that people can ride a bike. And again, low intensity Indoor training, I think is an important part of the picture because there are people that may be starting out. Being on an indoor trainer is actually safer. Joint health is another important thing. The Cycling Against Hip Pain Program of the UK is a six-week exercise and educational treatment pathway for people with hip osteoarthritis, and so what they found is there's massive improvement in hip pain and also surgery avoidance, with people cycling. And then also knee recovery, and I'm thinking we've all kind of heard stories about people alleviating knee pains through cycling. My knee has to recover after I cycle.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 18:23

Oh, okay, okay.

Tom Butler: 18:25

Well, that's an interesting thing we'll talk about in a bit. Brain health exercise promotes the expression of brain-derived neurotropic factor, so actually a factor that increases brain activity. And then again, balance is an important part of staying healthy longer. Really interesting things happening with Parkinson's and cycling, and then emotional health, depression, stress management and then also building social networks. And one of the things that I do on Zwift is I do a Cycling Over 60 group ride every Thursday and it's a way that I can actually ride with people that aren't in the local area, and I think that there's a lot of things that can be done through that. So that's kind of my premise. As far as why I think the bicycle needs to be considered a medical device, this came out of a lot of conversations that I had with the podcast, with people, healthcare professionals. Exercise being medicine is something that you hear more and more, and so the bike as an exercise device I think is extremely effective device. I think is extremely effective. What I decided to do was, in the, to move cycling the cycling over 60 community forward was to actually build local cycling over 60 communities. I'm in Pierce County, and so it made a lot of sense for me to launch the first cycling over 60 community here in Pierce County and there's some reasons for that. One, building real life connections are really valuable for success. You talked about Ray, you know, getting you going and that's that real life connection that I think is really helpful to get people going. And then support from local experienced cyclists. So safe routes, encouragement.

Tom Butler: 20:24

Erin I interviewed two episodes ago and her story is great. She did like 30, she did a 39 day trip in India. There were 30 days of riding. I think she ended up riding maybe 26 of the 30 days. She hasn't been cycling that long. She started, she took it up during COVID but she showed up one day in Eugene. There's a cycling club called Gears, the greater Eugene area, something cyclists and they really embraced her. She was really inexperienced and they really drew her in. She was really inexperienced and they really drew her in and took care of her and I thought it was such a fantastic example of a bike club really embracing someone new.

Tom Butler: 21:07

I think another important thing about cycling locally is support from county and city health promotion efforts. It is well known that activity is really important for a healthy community and by doing something local then you get to, you get to plug into those efforts and local medical expertise you talked about. My knee has to recover after I ride, but that's something you have to overcome when you ride and so it's helpful to have local health professionals that can say, okay, this is when we need to take that seriously. You know, that's just a situation of you know your body and what you have to do for you. You know, or somebody else might not have to to strengthen the structures in a way or to use athletic tape in a way to help with tracking or whatever you know how those health professionals that can be tapped into. And then also just from someone that's new, you know, like me when I was 59 and I'm like, okay, I'm going to start writing a lot, just to sit down with my doctor and say what are the things that I should be thinking about when I do that?

Tom Butler: 22:21

So components of a local Psyching Over 60 program is group rides, of course, and group rides that have a component for people that can show up, who are really inexperienced, not very strong, and feel really welcomed and there's something for them to do, even if maybe some group rides you're only going out for two and a half miles and turning around and coming back, you know, but that there's a, there's a way. Um, the group rides. There are meeting the needs for people that want to go out and you know 16, 17 miles and our average pace for you know 50 miles but then also for people that want to go really light New Rider Education. One of the collaborators here in Tacoma is Second Cycle and so they do new rider education with high school students. But we're working together being able to do new rider education with older riders, which I think you know.

Tom Butler: 23:22

One of the thing is how do you identify new riders? How do you identify people, because I don't think people tend to self-identify that I need help learning how to ride, how to choose a bicycle, how to choose a bicycle that fits, how to choose a bicycle for what you want to use it for, how to find a bike fitter all those things about that entry into making sure that they're as comfortable as possible on a bike that they choose and then interface with the local medical community so that we can say you know, before you get started, it might be good to talk to this person. Also, I believe that the potential of really having referrals from local medical professionals. My doctor loved what I did because, you know, I'm going along in a trajectory of getting worse and worse and worse and then all of a sudden, boom I, that trajectory totally changed and he's really excited that that happened. That's atypical, I mean. It definitely happens.

Tom Butler: 24:24

People choose to get in shape. But really one of the reasons why the focus on cycling over 60 and what I say is that cycling over 60 really starts at 55. Start at 55 and get kind of up to speed so that you can stay cycling over 60. And obviously it'd be great if people started younger. But I think there is kind of a situation where people need to see problems, you know, and they need like me, you know, and I've have a lot of education in health promotion and I had to get to the point where, you know, I could no longer say okay, this will reverse itself, you know, easily I have to take some dramatic changes. And so the medical community there's, they're interfacing with a lot of people that are older that could really use to get on a bike.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 25:37

Did your doctor give you a prescription? Did he tell you that it would be wise to get out and exercise?

Tom Butler: 25:44

Yeah, yeah. So I'm thinking probably around 35, 40. Was the first time my doctors I didn't have that doctor at the time, but doctors started saying you know, activity is going to be key for you in the future. And I probably gained weight every year, at least starting at 35. You know, I put on a little weight every year all the way up to 59. I was at about 240, 240 pounds. Now I'm down about 200. I'm looking to go down lighter than that, but there's a kind of a specific approach I want to use to do that, because I'm trying to maintain as much lean muscle mass as possible. But yeah, so my doctor was saying you need to be active. But he got the point where it was like okay, I've said this to him like 40 times, he's either going to do it or he's not. And again it really took me deciding okay, this is the time time to get it done. It was interesting Cause I didn't do it like right when COVID hit, which would have been a perfect time to do it. You know, I still was, was waiting, I don't know, for some magic or something to happen. I'm not sure what it was, but again it fine, I'm like okay, this is this is it. I got to do something about it.

Tom Butler: 27:03

Another thing about a local presence is that we can do an annual cycling or 60 ride, and I think there can. There are quite a number of people that, like me, having that goal, that they want to work towards that. That's going to be helpful, but supporting that in the right way and making sure the right is done in the right way. I think it's 14th it's either 13th or 14th. I think 14th is a Sunday set aside to do the first annual ride.

Tom Butler: 27:44

One thing that I think is vital, one thing that I think research is showing, is that cycling alone is not enough. You have to build upper body strength. So I've been talking to the people's community center about having a class there. It's really close to cycling, or 60, I'm sorry, really close to second cycle, and so, uh, we're, we're set up. Once we can generate some interest. Do some some strength training for cyclists. It would specifically be strength, strength training for cyclists with the upper body, but also how can you build your legs up to make cycling better? And resistance training. Some health seminars you know I found health professionals pretty generous and very interested in this, and so, again, part of connecting to the medical community is getting some people to come in and talk about different things that are important to stay healthy and stay, keep joints and everything in good working order and all of that. Um, cycling with a without age has anybody ever heard of cycling without age?

Tom Butler: 28:49

but uh, no that is a program just that I love, and that is, you put someone who has mobility issues in a seat on the front of a bicycle. They're trikes and battery-operated and you take them out for a ride.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 29:08

They do that in a squim.

Tom Butler: 29:09

Okay, yeah.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 29:10

Squim Washington yeah.

Tom Butler: 29:11

So Elysio here has four bikes. Really, they're really excited about a local community taking that on. Clem Washington yeah, so Elysio here has four bikes. They're really excited about a local community taking that on. And so that's what I've committed to help find pilots for those and to come up with some good ways to do that. I could talk endlessly about that, but I won't.

Tom Butler: 29:28

But an opportunity to get people out and about and get some cycling in, that normally wouldn't be the process, and the last thing that I would talk about is that I want to be have this focused on being a co-generate process which is connecting generations together. The nice thing about Second Cycle is that they have young cyclists that they're working with, and so to really make this a cross-generational program and find ways of whether it's trips or whatever weekly rides, but that we really are bonding people of different ages together. I think that's. There is an organization called Cogenerate. I haven't reached out to them yet it's one of the next things I'm going to be doing but I think that they're going to really like this project as a Cogenerate project.

Tom Butler: 30:44

The reason that I'm talking about this is that I would love for Tacoma Washington Bicycle Club to embrace this and to, you know, being aware that people could be showing up to group rides new people to be, you know, looking at different ways to bring your knowledge about cycling to people that don't have a lot of knowledge about cycling, and just, you know, as a club, really, in visualizing what does it look like to do things that will specifically keep people cycling later on in life, the you know, like the annual ride, to have some people being willing to participate in the annual ride, maybe a sweepers or um to help navigate. For, for people that aren't familiar with the, with the trail, um, the trail is pretty easy, but's you know the roads around Enumclaw. It's just a pretty basic route when you get up on the plateau, but you know things like that. I think you guys have the. There's a ride you do on the plateau and I'm blanking on the name of it right now it's called the Headwater Century.

Tom Butler: 31:50

Headwater Century Do you have that scheduled for 2025? I think it might be the week before.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 31:58

It will be in.

TWBC Member: 31:59

September 8th.

Tom Butler: 32:00

September 8th yeah so that's the week before what I was thinking about doing this, so this isn't locked in stone that day.

TWBC Member: 32:09

Sorry. September 6th September 6th Saturday.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 32:13

Okay, so this would be the next Sunday September 6th Saturday Okay, so this would be the next Sunday. Your program is very similar to what we've been doing for the last 50 years. Okay, because we cycle for what is it? Transportation, fitness or health, transportation, health and the other thing that I can't recall right at the moment, but it's on one of our business cards, on our logo.

TWBC Member: 32:41

Recreation.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 32:43

Recreation, transportation, recreation and health, both environmental health and personal health. So that's been our mantra for like 50 years now.

Tom Butler: 32:56

Yeah, that's why I think there's a really easy merger about what we're trying to do. The only thing that I'm going to be looking at doing is reaching out again to health care professionals. When I talk about the bicycle as a medical device, then it really is those, the people with the county, that are saying how can we improve the health outcomes? How can we specifically, like, improve obesity?

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 33:25

We actually some of you guys might not know this, but we had a program called Car Last Commute for 18 years, okay, and it was sponsored by Pierce County Parks and the hospitals and the phone companies and about 12 or 15 people sitting around the table. Yeah, and that program went on for 18 years and then when the one individual retired from the county, the program kind of went away. It had a long history and a lot of people were participating in that program.

Tom Butler: 34:08

Yeah, and I think that those programs you know I'm a real believer that those programs need to keep going. I believe active transportation as a focus from county, city, state, nationally, whatever, I think that those programs need to keep going. I think there's another layer on top of that and I think MultiCare is a good example because they have programs that they do that are focused on community development, and so I think having funding into those programs are great. But also there's elements of like, for example, the hip health program. That's like a specific thing that a bicycle offers that is unique, and a lot of that program in the uk is about stationary cycling, right. So you, you know there need to be this element stationary cycle that some people transition into the road or trails or whatever, but um, but that's a little different thing.

Tom Butler: 35:07

Like multi-care sponsoring, like these community development things are a little different than them saying, okay, this, the bicycle is a medical device, is something that we want to advocate for and that, to me, is done a little bit differently than like a safe routes for to schools program or other things like that. Or even like they, they heavily sponsor, um, the rider education program through second cycle, but that's a little bit of a different focus of on the community, rather than saying there's this medical device, that we're going to start trying to get people to see the bicycle differently, as something that can save their life what you're doing is kind of very parallel to what we've been doing through at least eight or more years with those groups yeah, and I think that's you know again why I wanted to.

Tom Butler: 36:02

You know, this is like my first stop as far as talking to community organizations. I mean, I started, uh, working with second cycle, but the, the bicycle club, I think, is an absolute vital entity for this focus on getting people cycling later on in life.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 36:22

As you work your program. It would be good to kind of mesh with us, because we have a senior cycle on Monday, tuesday, wednesday, Thursday and Saturday. We have, like, another little group that puts on the Tuesday night ride. So that's going on right now.

Tom Butler: 36:44

I think that's exactly it. That's exactly what I'd like you to be open to, you know, is that you know I can recommend to people as I run into them hey, go on and look at the calendar and and you'll see the different rides, and then it's just if we get, you know, like five people at a time that are like you know, I could really use some additional advice from someone who's an experienced cyclist, you know, like on safe routes and stuff like that, then that might be able to be integrated in like as part of a ride, or maybe you know something that happens in addition to a ride, or show up early for a ride, let's have a conversation and then go out on a ride and you know, and maybe a pace group. That's a little.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 37:35

And I could do that slower pace group In the past we've had, like we call it, a beginner ride and we've had very little turnout. We've tried that over the last 30 years like a beginner and I don't know why, but it's. Maybe people are afraid to come out or something, but the turnout is usually rather low and I can't explain why.

Tom Butler: 38:02

I think it's possible and I can't say that I know why, but I think it's possible that again, it's hard for someone to self-identify for something like that.

TWBC Member: 38:12

Don't have any real problem with promoting bicycling for health. That's a wonderful thing. I will say that I think you need to be careful about calling it a medical device, because I think there's a legal term for that and I don't know what it is, but I think there's a legal term for that description. But there are lots of alternative words. You might want to start I can't tell exactly where you are on wanting to bring people on board but you might ride a few times on the Thursday ride, which is mostly retired people frequent, all over 60. And and see how that works for for you and to ride with them, and then begin to invite people in your community to ride on Thursday.

Tom Butler: 39:13

So let me. Let me talk about both those things, because I think you're right to question why I'm using the term medical device. But I'm specifically being a bit provocative there. You could argue that you would have to get FDA approval for a medical device. I mean, that's an argument you could make, but I think that for me, like just coming out and saying I believe it's a medical device, I don't care if you believe it is or not, but for me it's been a medical device.

Tom Butler: 39:46

I'm willing to be a bit provocative that way Because I want to be very clear. I want people to have a very clear picture in their mind that I'm talking about something that is at a different level and I feel very comfortable if anybody questions on me. This is all the reasons. I'll give you all the research of what leads me to call it a medical device, in addition to my own personal experience. I think it's a good thing to say and I'm not saying that the bike club should talk about it as a medical device. I'm just saying is that I'm out talking to doctors. I'm saying, really, when we look at the bicycle, it's a medical device. And the doctors are like you're absolutely right, it's a medical intervention. Until the FDA asks me to stop doing that, I'll probably do it.

Tom Butler: 40:36

I think you're only going to get in trouble if you try to sell a bike. I think that's right.

Tom Butler: 40:41

Or if you try to sell a specific bike, like bought a bike from the bike shop and sold it as a $1,000 markup because it's a medical device, or get reimbursement from your health provider for your insurance. But the truth of the matter is I'm going to be pushing that direction as much as I can. So I won't go into a big long story about work that I did before as far as health club memberships and insurance reimbursement for health care memberships, but I'm going to be pushing like where's the health care system reimbursement if you go out and buy a bike? So that's a very complicated conversation to have.

TWBC Member: 41:24

I've also been a part of several programs over the years that promoted physical activity in various ways and we worked with physicians, and I heard you mention this early on. We worked with physicians to get them to do prescriptions. I would also say that physical therapists would be a good partnering, supporting profession for what you're talking about, partly because of the types of physical activity. And a third thing that I want to mention is that there's a growing body of research that looks at women's training on bicycles, and women need to train a little bit differently than men have traditionally trained. So it's a growing body of research very helpful for women.

Tom Butler: 42:27

I think that's a fantastic observation and I think that's one of those things that taking more of a medical approach. Now in Pierce County, both PLU and what's the other place, ups they both have kinesiology programs and you know, but those are programs that I think we should also be tying into specifically to have people kind of advising on those things in helping to build programs and connecting with their graduates and building programs that are really specific to different people's needs. There's, you know, some people have knee issues. You know there's all kinds of rehab issues. So there's, you know again, and the difference between men and women I think is an important difference as well, but you know those. And the difference between men and women, I think, is an important difference as well, but you know, those are all kinds of things that need to be taken into account, which is again part of what Cycling Over 60 is meant to do is to pull in the local experts. The idea is to have other communities and then be pulling information from other communities around and their connections with universities and and providers to really come up with best practices.

Tom Butler: 43:45

One of the comments was about participating in rides, and you know that's something I'm definitely going to be doing. Thursdays is kind of tough for me because I do the Zwift ride on Thursdays but, um, when it gets hot I'm not going to be doing the Zwift ride at three o'clock in the afternoon. The other thing is that, because of my blood sugar issues, riding the afternoon is is more beneficial for me than writing in the morning. But yeah, you know, I'll definitely be um hitting the rides and the rides and definitely for me, if you guys are okay with it, this is what I will do is I will meet someone and I'll talk to them about cycling and what it's done for me and then I will say let's get you connected to the rides that are going on the bike club and you know kind of be funneling the people in.

Tom Butler: 44:40

Because, again, I think the local bicycle club is absolutely vital. Just like I talked about Erin, when she showed up at Gears, you know, they welcomed her in and you know. And then, three years years later, she's biking all over India, and part of it was because of that community that embraced her. And then also there is this desire that I have. I mean, part of this is just a desire to see cycling more popular. So when I do SCP this year, I will have probably four 20-year-olds that will be going with me, and so that's another thing about the social support that I have to go out cycling. How do we get people to understand that cycling as a fitness program also? Bring young people along with you, bring your family members along with you so they can support you. You all want to get healthy and as a family, if you're getting healthier together, it's better. So the other thing is to funnel whole groups into the bike club as well.

Bob Myrick - TWBC: 45:52

Well, thank you so much. Yeah, well, thank you for having me Really appreciate you.

Tom Butler: 45:56

Yeah, well, thank you for having me Really appreciate you. Yeah, you heard a little pushback at the meeting about me calling the bicycle a medical device. I didn't really see that as criticism, just somebody wanting to make sure I'm getting things right. As I said then, I hope it is a little provocative when I call the bicycle a medical device, because I want to provoke healthcare providers and others to see the bike this way Again. I believe if you can say that exercise is medicine, then I think the bike needs to be seen as a medical device.

Tom Butler: 46:31

There is a site with the URL exerciseismedicineorg. It's a site by ACSM, the American College of Sports Medicine. The site includes an Rx for Health section. In this section, acsm provides essential guidelines on exercise for sedentary individuals and those with various chronic diseases and medical conditions and medical conditions. So I think when you're giving a prescription for activity as medicine, then it is logical that the bike is a medical device and a perfect device for carrying out these prescriptions. I'm looking forward to having many more discussions about the bicycle as a medical device. I love it that partners like Tacoma Washington Bicycle Club are coming together to see Cycling Over 60 become a local program. I believe it's just the beginning of something really special here. Whether you are cycling because of some health condition or just out enjoying the world at the pace of a bicycle, I know you are getting a lot of benefit from it. And remember, age is just a gear change.