Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 3, episode 7, cyclocross Over 60, and I'm your host, tom Butler. I want to start out this week with a personal reflection. I am worried about the environment in the US for cyclists. It seems to me that the new administration is mean-spirited. In a recent talk, trump asked the crowd if they would like to see him quote knock the hell out of the people backstage, end quote. The crowd erupted in cheers. This was over a microphone that Trump was getting exhausted holding. When I am out riding, I feel very vulnerable to pickup trucks that have angry drivers. The crowd erupted in cheers. This was over a microphone that Trump was getting exhausted holding. When I am out riding, I feel very vulnerable to pickup trucks that have angry drivers. I think a nation that is getting more mean-spirited poses an increased risk to me while I am out on the bike. I hope I am wrong, but it sure feels like there are a lot of people who want to punish anyone that gets in their way. I don't like that. A spirit of aggression is coming from the very top. But it does motivate me even more to advocate for safe bike lanes.

Tom Butler: 1:10

I finished the trainer bike build this week. Here's the end result. The total price for parts came in at $554. I had pedals, a seat post and a saddle, so the cost for these aren't factored in. I also put on a front wheel from another bike. It would be possible to make some kind of stand for the front forks and just forego a front wheel. I guess I will probably pick up a wheel sometime at a used bike store. If I do, I think I will buy a puncture-proof, solid tire. I've always been a bit curious about them.

Tom Butler: 1:40

I think I could have shaved off $100 from the build without much work. The obvious place that I could have saved money was with a used frame. I'm thinking I could have got a hold of a used steel frame pretty cheap. However, I do really like how the new frame looks. I went with a Shimano Dior derailleur and shifters to go with a 10-speed cassette. I think I could have saved money with a MicroShift derailleur and shifters. I did go with a micro shift 42 crankset. I also probably would have gone with a 9 speed cassette if I didn't already have the 10 speed on the trainer. One of the decisions is going to take some time to know if I did the right thing. I put a butterfly handlebar on the bike. I wanted to have a lot of hand position options and of course, I didn't need to be in an aerodynamic position, so I thought I would give them a try. I'm going to be tweaking the angle of the bars to see what works best for me. Overall, I'm really happy with this as a dedicated trainer bike, despite paying a bit more than I had hoped, and without brakes. It only has one use because it isn't going on the road anytime soon.

Tom Butler: 2:39

I've mentioned before that I live on a plateau. It was created by a mud flow from Mount Rainier and it's quite large. There are several ways to get down to the valley by car. However, I've tried many of them by bike and I've yet to find a way that isn't really risky. This isn't a problem for me when it comes to riding my bike for fitness. Now that a new bridge has connected a couple of communities on the plateau, there are plenty of routes up here. However, there's a lot of stuff that I have to do in the valley and, as far as I can tell, the roads down to the valley are not suitable for riding a bike. I'm pretty sure that no action will be taken to address this, because there is a plan in place to repair the bridge on the trail that goes down to the valley. They plan to have that completed next year, but it would be really nice to have more than one way to bike down. That got me wondering how someone would start the process of advocating for addition of a bike lane to an existing road. Maybe I will look into that soon and report on what I learned here.

Tom Butler: 3:44

If you've been listening to the podcast, you know that I've started spending time at Cyclocross events. I've become really intrigued by the scene, so last weekend I decided to take a microphone to an event and do some interviews with riders who were over 60. Here's what I got. My first interview is with Andrew Bennett, who finished first in the Category 4 Male 60 Plus group For most of the race. Andrew stayed first in the Category 4 male 60 plus group. For most of the race Andrew stayed out in front. His lap times were somewhere around 8 minutes and 20 seconds. That compares to lap times of about 7 minutes for the general Category 4 male winner. Hi, what's your name, andy Bennett. So, andy, how was today's?

Speaker 2: 4:22

race. Today's race was great. It was my first win.

Tom Butler: 4:26

Okay, nice.

Speaker 2: 4:27

Nice, and what category? Cat 460 plus. Okay, and how'd you find the course to be? The course was fantastic. It's the long ride up. That's kind of my strength. I've got pretty good lungs. I'm not super technical, but I can climb, so I like that.

Tom Butler: 4:45

Great Now were you cycling other ways before you got into cyclocross.

Speaker 2: 4:51

I do a little bit of gravel riding, so I did some gravel grinders over the summer, but mainly I'm a commuter, okay, and my commute is just long enough to sort of count as training for a cross. Gotcha, gotcha. Now, how long have you been racing? I started, I think, two years before COVID. So what's it make? Like six, seven years, okay, yeah, so not that long. No, yeah, I picked it up late, but it's been a blast. What drew you to it? I'd heard about it but always been intimidated by it until I happened. My daughter had a soccer game at a park where there's a cyclocross race going on and I watched it and I thought maybe I can do this.

Speaker 2: 5:32

So, then the next race was Woodland Park, which is real close to my house, and I rode a lap to make sure I could before I registered. Once I realized I can do this, I registered and I've been doing as much as I can ever since Nice. So how many more races do you have this year? Definitely going to do Woodland Park and probably do the one down at North Sea Tech.

Tom Butler: 5:54

So two more, okay, yeah. So how many more years are you going to do it? You think A lot. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Now what are you riding?

Speaker 2: 6:04

I'm riding a giant tough road that I bought seven or eight years ago, and it's the only bike I have. So it's my gravel bike, my commuter, my cross bike, and occasionally I've got some roadie friends. I go out and play with them. So do you change out wheels? Yeah, over the course of the year I'll swap out. Go to slicks or bigger knobs for the gravel grinders, things like that. Right, okay, Not too much, they're tubeless. It's kind of a pain.

Tom Butler: 6:35

Okay.

Speaker 2: 6:36

So what are your goals for the rest of the season? Starting the season, my goal was to finish in the front of the pack, but now that I won a race, my goal is to finish on the podium for my category.

Tom Butler: 6:45

Okay, nice. So when does that happen?

Speaker 2: 6:48

That'll be the Woodland Park race is the last MFG race, and so we'll know final season standings at the end of that race. Okay, nice, how close are you? I was fifth coming into today, but with today's win I'm going to be right in the mix. Okay, yeah.

Tom Butler: 7:07

Perfect. Yeah Well, thanks so much for taking the time to talk to me. My pleasure. So what's your name? Tom Kirkendall? Nice to meet you, tom. All right, so you were out here racing today. Yeah, how did it feel today.

Speaker 5: 7:21

It was good. I'm a little slow on the uphills but yeah, the flats were fast and the corners were easy and yeah, it was a heck of a lot of fun. It was a really good course.

Tom Butler: 7:31

Okay, so this course, compared to other courses, is pretty good.

Speaker 5: 7:36

Long. I think it was longer than a lot of them and maybe a little bit faster than some of them, because you get down here in the flats and you can go pretty quick and the corners weren't really super tight so you could kind of weave. You know, weave through the corners a little easier. So yeah, it was fast so the stairs out here, really, the stairs.

Speaker 5: 7:57

Yeah, I'm a terrible runner, so, yeah, the stairs. The stairs are probably a little more difficult than just a regular run-up, because they're stairs, you know, and you can't just make your own pace. Right, you've got to hit the stairs and at the top of the stairs it was still uphill. So if you were lucky and nobody was in front of you, you could jump on your bike and you could ride out of it. But if there was a bunch of people in front of you, it was pretty tough to ride out of the stairs. But it was good, it was fun.

Tom Butler: 8:27

So you've been racing cyclocross a while.

Speaker 5: 8:31

I think I started in 2019. Okay, so not that long ago, not that long ago.

Tom Butler: 8:35

Okay, how about before that Road biking?

Speaker 5: 8:38

Yeah, I've been biking forever. I didn't own a car until I was 21. Everything was bicycle. My wife and I have done a lot of touring and things like that so what drew you to Cyclecross? The adventure of it all. It's a really super good community. Everybody's pretty friendly unlike road biking and things like that, where they just want to kill you okay you know, but uh, yeah, it's just, it's just a really good group of people, um.

Speaker 5: 9:13

It gives you a reason to get in shape, gives you a reason to um to push yourself beyond. You know, whatever else you were doing in oct.

Tom Butler: 9:25

So you have more races this season still.

Speaker 5: 9:28

Yeah, we've got, I think four more Okay. Something like that Two more MFGs and two more Cross Revolutions.

Tom Butler: 9:36

Okay, how long do you think you'll be doing this?

Speaker 5: 9:40

Oh, you know, as long as my legs will keep going, okay. You know, I mean I wouldn't mind doing it, you know, late into my 80s. Yeah, you know, if the body holds up. Okay, you know, don't hit too many trees, gotcha.

Tom Butler: 9:53

So any advice that you have for, like older cyclists that want to get into cyclocross?

Speaker 5: 10:00

Don't worry about it, just do it. Okay, you know, just just get on the bike and ride, okay, um, you know, it's always, it's always fun to finish in the top three and stuff like that, right, but you know, if you finish last, you finished yeah, you know like hey, I finished pretty good, so would you say it's different enough from road cycling that you want to do some preparation?

Speaker 5: 10:23

for it before your first race. Yeah, you probably want to um you to make sure you're comfortable riding on dirt and doing tight corners and things like that. It's completely different than road biking in that road biking is pretty much full-on, sit on the saddle and pedal your legs off. Where here you have to get off and run and get over the barriers. It's completely different, but you need to be in shape for it. If you're a good mountain biker, you're in.

Tom Butler: 10:56

Gotcha Okay, so talk about your bike. What are you riding?

Speaker 5: 10:59

I have a Tom Ritchie Okay, it's all steel and everybody's always quite interested that I ride flat pedals Okay okay, yeah. And the reason why I ride flat pedals is I can get on and off a lot easier.

Tom Butler: 11:16

Did you start out that way?

Speaker 5: 11:17

No, I started off with SPD cleats, okay, and I just had a hard time getting in and out of them and filling up with mud and stuff like that. So I just said you know, I'm going over to flats. I think for me personally, I think it's the way to go.

Speaker 10: 11:33

Yeah okay.

Speaker 7: 11:35

It works for me.

Speaker 5: 11:36

You know my bike is all steel. It's Kind of old school in a way. You know all the cables and stuff are on the outside kind of old school.

Speaker 4: 11:45

in a way, you know all the cables and stuff are on the outside.

Speaker 5: 11:48

Okay, yeah, right, you know so, but that's kind of cool, I think. For me it just feels better to have that than some old fancy carbon fiber whiz bang you know, $5,000 whatever.

Tom Butler: 11:59

Gotcha, gotcha. Sometimes I wonder about being out here and crashing on a carbon fiber bike.

Speaker 5: 12:04

Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah, your speeds really aren't super fast. You're going fast but, you're not like a road bike, where you might be hitting 30 plus. Yeah, gotcha so you're not really going too fast, but yeah, you can get hurt.

Erik Olson: 12:20

It can hurt your bike too.

Speaker 5: 12:22

I got ran over one time I fell down and a guy ran me right over Okay, and he was worse off than I was.

Tom Butler: 12:30

Oh okay.

Speaker 5: 12:30

But my bike survived quite well.

Tom Butler: 12:32

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 12:33

So I'm like okay, I got the right bike.

Tom Butler: 12:36

Well, thanks for spending some time talking to me. Yeah, for sure, and good luck with the rest of the races.

Speaker 5: 12:40

Oh, yeah, no.

Speaker 7: 12:47

What's your name? Vicki Spring.

Tom Butler: 12:49

Nice to meet you, vicki Well thank you. So how'd it go today?

Speaker 7: 12:53

It went very, very well because the course was fabulous.

Tom Butler: 12:55

Okay, what'd you like about it?

Speaker 7: 12:58

Oh, everything. There's straightaways, there's a couple of descents, it was just fun.

Speaker 2: 13:05

Okay.

Tom Butler: 13:06

Were you at Magnuson Park. Yeah, that seemed like more of a beginner's course. Is that right to say?

Speaker 7: 13:13

It was a very quick course yes.

Speaker 6: 13:14

Okay, okay.

Speaker 7: 13:16

Yep, the woman who usually wins in my category. She was upset because you know, this was just so many straightaways and I could beat her.

Tom Butler: 13:28

Okay, okay, so you won last week, or at Magnuson, I mean.

Speaker 7: 13:34

Magnuson, yeah, so last MFG race.

Tom Butler: 13:37

Okay, and then how'd you do today?

Speaker 7: 13:40

I did all right.

Tom Butler: 13:41

Okay.

Speaker 7: 13:42

My real bike is what would you say? It's convalescing, okay, and so this one was something I've never done a cyclocross race with.

Tom Butler: 13:55

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 7: 13:56

Yeah, it was Okay, but the course was fabulous.

Tom Butler: 13:59

So your convalescing bike, what is that?

Speaker 7: 14:02

It's a Cannondale.

Tom Butler: 14:03

Okay.

Speaker 7: 14:04

And it's one I got off Craigslist and it's fabulous Nice nice. Until it broke Okay.

Tom Butler: 14:13

So do you think you'll be back on that one soon, or was it?

Speaker 7: 14:15

It's going to be two weeks. Okay, so I got another, probably another race with this one, and when.

Tom Butler: 14:21

how many more races do you have this season?

Speaker 7: 14:23

We have three more, I guess. Okay just three.

Tom Butler: 14:27

Oh, I'm going to miss it how long you been doing it doing it.

Speaker 7: 14:30

Tom, how long have we been doing this? 2019? Okay, so I guess it's five years, five years and what drew you to it?

Tom Butler: 14:39

huh, what drew you to it?

Speaker 7: 14:41

to do it um, you know, I'd heard about it and I wanted to give it a go and we had a husband of one of my friends was doing it and just said it was just fabulously fun. And he was right.

Tom Butler: 14:54

Okay, okay, but you like the variety of this and the challenge of this.

Speaker 7: 14:58

Oh yeah, you know, you've got the corners, you've got the nasty descents, you've got climbs. It's wonderful.

Tom Butler: 15:07

So if someone was over 60 and deciding that they wanted to do this for the first time, what would you say to them?

Speaker 7: 15:15

go for it, heavens.

Tom Butler: 15:16

Yes, over 60 is not that bad no, and what would you say as far as if you've never done before? What are some skills that you'd want to learn before doing this?

Speaker 7: 15:27

oh, that's a hard one because you've got to learn to corner, you've got to learn to get off your bike real quick, pick it up and go when you need to. Have you seen the barriers?

Tom Butler: 15:39

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 7: 15:39

So you've got to be able to get off fast, get back on fast that's kind of the main skills and go fast.

Tom Butler: 15:49

Gotcha All right. Well, thank you so much. You're welcome. I was really happy to be able to catch up with James Wagner who, at 81 years old, was the oldest competitor in the Category 4 male 60 plus group. He finished fifth of the 16 riders in that group. What's your name, wagner? Okay, and you were out here today racing Absolutely. What did you think of the course? It was great.

Speaker 4: 16:12

This is one of the best. Okay, nice to hear.

Tom Butler: 16:14

Yeah, I love this course, and how did you feel about your effort today?

Speaker 4: 16:18

Oh, I'm hey. Any day on a bike is a good day.

Erik Olson: 16:23

Nice. Some are better than others. Today was a good day. I felt fine.

Tom Butler: 16:33

Nice. The only problem was all those guys that were passing me every time we'd get to the stairs. Okay, okay. So stairs here. Is that a typical thing that you find on a cyclocross track?

Speaker 4: 16:39

It's not uncommon.

Tom Butler: 16:41

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 4: 16:43

So yeah, unfortunately, the only downside of cyclocross is that you have to get off a perfectly good bicycle.

Tom Butler: 16:49

I like it.

Speaker 4: 16:53

So how long have you been doing cyclocross? Maybe 10?

Tom Butler: 16:56

plus years.

Speaker 4: 16:57

Okay, were you riding road before that, or what?

Erik Olson: 17:03

were you doing before that my?

Speaker 4: 17:03

first love is dirt, so mountain biking, and then I came to cyclocross after that.

Speaker 6: 17:08

Okay.

Speaker 4: 17:08

So road has gotten a little too dangerous and so, yeah, I prefer dirt.

Tom Butler: 17:14

Okay, so road has gotten a little too dangerous, and so, yeah, I prefer the preferred dirt. Gotcha, how many more races you got this season Two, okay, okay. So you'll do a Woodland Park, I'll do Woodland.

Speaker 4: 17:21

Park Okay.

Tom Butler: 17:22

Okay, cool, um, you're not sharing your age.

Speaker 4: 17:26

I'm. My racing age is 105. Okay, but my real age is 81. Okay.

Tom Butler: 17:34

I don't know how that works with the racing age. I think at 81 out here you seem younger than 81.

Speaker 4: 17:41

I am. If I'm younger at all, it's just because I'm lucky.

Speaker 2: 17:46

Okay.

Speaker 4: 17:47

I just keep showing up. Gotcha, what are you riding? I am riding a Ridley.

Erik Olson: 17:54

It's a.

Speaker 4: 17:55

Belgian bike Okay.

Tom Butler: 17:58

It's a great bike. Okay, you've been riding that a long time.

Speaker 4: 18:02

Actually just about three years.

Tom Butler: 18:03

Okay.

Speaker 4: 18:05

What did you make the?

Tom Butler: 18:05

switch.

Speaker 4: 18:08

I think it was the team I belonged to made the switch, but it's not to made the stage.

Speaker 6: 18:11

Okay.

Speaker 4: 18:11

But you know, it's not so much the bike, it's really the. You know the training and just the time you put in to practice and so on.

Tom Butler: 18:22

Okay, so if someone was starting to do CycleCross for the first time. What might you advise them to practice?

Speaker 4: 18:30

Just show up here and watch what other people do and follow the wheels of the good guys and just do it.

Tom Butler: 18:39

Great, great Well. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me.

Speaker 4: 18:44

Hey, my pleasure.

Tom Butler: 18:46

And good luck with the.

Speaker 4: 18:47

Anything you can do to encourage more people to come out and do what is really a great sport, I will share with you the one cliche I picked up from somebody else. They said that this is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

Tom Butler: 19:03

Okay, I love it. Thanks so much. Now, my pleasure, take care. So what's your name? Alistair Turner. Nice to meet you, alistair. Yeah, good to meet you. So tell me about the course here today. What's good about this course?

Speaker 10: 19:17

Well, it's not a fast course. It's a little bit more technical than a couple of the other courses. You know lots of grass corners. But then one, well two, single track descents, one of which is pretty straightforward and the second one, which is definitely not straightforward, it's kind of steep, it's got some turns and on those turns there's some big roots.

Tom Butler: 19:48

So it makes it a little sketchy for some and a little exciting for others. So is that an atypical feature? First call to staging.

Speaker 4: 19:58

Yeah, I would say that a couple of the courses this year have a feature that's as technical downhill

Erik Olson: 20:03

as this one.

Tom Butler: 20:05

And most of the courses don't have anything quite that technical, I would say. So you're here, you're waiting to lead some kids through. Yep, yep.

Speaker 10: 20:18

This is the kids' preview lab.

Tom Butler: 20:20

Well, I should let you go do that. I might have a couple here, are you guys?

Speaker 10: 20:23

here for the kids' preview lab?

Speaker 7: 20:24

Yes, thank you so much.

Tom Butler: 20:25

Okay well, let's do it Go for that. Okay, thank you. Thanks so much. Oh good, let's do it Go for that.

Speaker 10: 20:29

Okay, thank you. Thanks so much, oh good.

Tom Butler: 20:31

Thanks so much for taking the time.

Speaker 10: 20:32

Oh you're welcome, thank you.

Tom Butler: 20:36

And your name.

Speaker 11: 20:37

Carrie Morris.

Tom Butler: 20:38

Nice to meet you, Carrie. So how did today go?

Speaker 11: 20:41

Well, it started out well. The preview ride was great. I rode down the tricky part of the hill and then the first two laps I crashed on the hill, went at the very bottom and not expecting to, and then I ran down it once and the last time I made it down. So, it was not my best, but it was fun and I rode as hard as I could.

Tom Butler: 21:02

So what do you think about this course as far as the challenges?

Speaker 11: 21:05

This is one of my favorite courses of all time. I love it. I think the challenge is just right for me, where it's not just an easy thing and it shows me what I need to work on. I still have some getting on and off the bike, or I get off the bike fine, getting on the bike fast. Things like that are skills I can improve.

Tom Butler: 21:24

Gotcha, how long you been doing this.

Speaker 11: 21:27

For about six years, I think. But yeah, six years. We took a couple of years off for the pandemic.

Tom Butler: 21:33

Okay yeah, what drew you to it?

Speaker 11: 21:36

Actually my husband did. He was watching he loves watching all the World Cup events on TV and then we have a really good friend, craig, on them. That is awesome at cyclocross and he's super fast, and so we were talking to him a lot about it. And then my husband I went with him to buy a bike that he could use for the cyclocross course, and then he ended up he wouldn't leave without buying me a bike also.

Speaker 10: 22:00

Okay, and.

Speaker 11: 22:00

I love it. I think it feels like riding your bike in a park when you're a kid, so it's very fun and you can just go crazy, and then something's too too risky. Just back off a little bit.

Tom Butler: 22:11

So your first race, did you feel like you were prepared or did you just kind of go?

Speaker 11: 22:15

into it. My very first race ever. The crowd is so welcoming here, the people, so we got a lot of tips on it and my first race I raced in the beginner all season and it was good there was one. It wasn't MFG Mostly we do MFG but it was a different one and they had this really dangerous steep hill where they had it. So the kids were also riding with the beginners and the kids were wiping out all of this one course.

Speaker 11: 22:43

It was kind of tricky but I did feel prepared and I felt like I had the basics on how to get over the barriers, how to unclip and clip back on. So it was fun it's exciting I get nervous still but, I get nervous before the races, and then I for the effort, not for the.

Tom Butler: 23:01

So you have more races this season.

Speaker 11: 23:02

Yes, the next MFG race is in two weeks at Lower Woodland and that's pretty close to our house, so that's right over there and I'm hoping that they have the slip and slide this year. The last time we did it there, I didn't do the slip and slide. I regretted it ever since.

Tom Butler: 23:21

So that's on a hill, I'm guessing.

Speaker 11: 23:22

Yeah, it's towards the back and you have the option of not going on the slip and slide, or you can go to the top of it and it's all foamy and bubbly and you just hold your bike over your head and slide down and it's just about as fast as going the other way.

Tom Butler: 23:34

That's awesome. That's really cool. So how long do you think you'll do this?

Speaker 11: 23:40

well, I always think, oh, I'm just about getting to the end of when I should be doing this, but then there's some people in our category that they're 72, I think, and it's just so fast. So, I guess, as long as they're going, I guess I can't wait.

Speaker 2: 23:54

Yeah, nice yeah.

Tom Butler: 23:56

So what advice would you give to someone who's like, maybe done a lot of road cycling but has never done this? What are some things that they should do?

Speaker 11: 24:06

I would take a clinic or go out with someone that's done it and just practice some of the basics and then enter, go in on the beginning course there's no pressure. Ride the preview laps. Always ride the preview laps because you know what you're going to face. It takes a lot out of that guesswork when you get on the course. So always ride that because then you can kind of even problem solve through. And if you ride with the preview course, with with the ambassador, then they'll give you some tips. Sometimes too, like let's talk about how to get down this piece and it's like nice, nice keeps it safer so what are you riding?

Speaker 11: 24:40

uh, this is I. I bought this from somebody right before the pandemic ended. I got my bike was so heavy, and now my daughter's using it, but it was so heavy and I would have to. I could hardly get the hill. It was probably like 27 pounds and this one is so light, so I just looked for a used one that someone was offloading and it's so light compared to the other one. So this is a Cannondale.

Speaker 2: 25:04

Perfect.

Tom Butler: 25:05

Well, so good to talk to you. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, your name, cheryl Johnson. Nice to meet you, cheryl, thank you so how was your day today?

Speaker 9: 25:15

It was great. It's a fun course.

Tom Butler: 25:17

Okay, what'd you like about the course?

Speaker 9: 25:19

Um, I like running up the steps over here. Okay, I like coming down the hill.

Tom Butler: 25:23

Okay. The bad stuff, that seems like the tough stuff, so you like the tough stuff, yeah, yeah, okay. Have you been doing this a while.

Speaker 9: 25:30

Yeah, a couple years.

Tom Butler: 25:31

Okay, well, that's not a long time, though.

Speaker 9: 25:33

About 10 maybe. Oh, about 10 years Okay.

Tom Butler: 25:35

Okay, did you do road stuff also?

Speaker 9: 25:39

I mountain bike, okay, mountain and cross.

Tom Butler: 25:43

Okay, so tell me the difference between the two. How would you contrast circle cross with mountain biking?

Speaker 9: 25:50

Mountain biking. Your tires are bigger. Okay, You've got different handlebars. Of course, You're just on single track all the time.

Tom Butler: 26:00

Okay. Yeah it's just fun. Yeah, yeah, so are these is this a little more demanding from a cardiovascular perspective. Do you think okay, because this is go all out for 45?

Speaker 9: 26:18

minutes. Okay, you go all out, gotcha. Now what are you writing?

Tom Butler: 26:19

uh, I'm writing uh, specialized so how many more races are you going to do this season, you think?

Speaker 9: 26:24

uh, I think there's one more left for mfg, uh, two left for cross revolution, and then then sometimes we go down to Oregon and do the Oberth's down there the Oregon. Bike Race Association or we travel a lot across the country. We've done cyclocrossing from here to New Jersey, to New York, to Florida, kansas, we've been all over what do you think about the cyclocross community?

Speaker 2: 26:51

oh they're terrific everybody's so nice, very supportive.

Speaker 9: 26:55

You know, we really want people to ride their bikes. We don't care what kind of bike they are, just get on a bike. Just a wheel, even we even have a unicyclist occasionally.

Tom Butler: 27:08

Excellent. So if someone was just starting to look at it and making a decision about whether to do it, what would you say to them?

Speaker 9: 27:18

Oh, definitely do it. Just go, have fun. You don't have to win, you just have to get on your bike, get off the couch and go.

Tom Butler: 27:27

How about some practice things? What are some things someone should practice?

Speaker 9: 27:30

Yeah like if you join a team. A lot of them have team practice teach you how to get off and on the bike. It's just a matter of riding. You just got to get out and ride.

Tom Butler: 27:41

So would you say, that's one difference. Like on a mountain bike, you're not on and off.

Speaker 9: 27:45

You're not off. Yeah, you're only off if you crash, right, right.

Tom Butler: 27:48

Okay, you're only off if you crash. Right, right.

Speaker 9: 27:50

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 4: 27:51

All right.

Speaker 8: 27:51

Well thank you so much.

Tom Butler: 27:53

Okay.

Speaker 8: 27:53

Your name. My name's Brian Willman, nice, to meet you, brian, and I am a cyclocross racer. In Cycle U they teach you to have a mattress. Mine goes like this I am a cyclocross racer, I ride through mud and sand on purpose. I get off a perfectly good bike and carry it. I'm clearly deranged and not overly bright, but I am relentless, for I am a cyclocross racer, nice, I'm probably the slowest guy in the field, but have fun and work out, I can get anywhere else. Cross, like any outdoor sport, is a great aid to your footwork and agility, so I encourage people to come try cross, even if you decide it's not for you as a thing to do. It's a good thing to practice and you'll find in ordinary riding on the street, things like pursuer grades are less of a hazard because you're better at dealing with random crap in the way.

Tom Butler: 28:50

So talk about the cyccleCross community. How do you find the community?

Speaker 8: 28:54

It's always been very nice to me. I'm an old, large white guy right, so I can't speak of how other people experience things, but it's always been good to me, and Cross is very much a run what you're brung. In fact, there was a lady I and some guys I know were helping with a set up on her bike a little bit ago. It's like, okay, those tires aren't ideal, but you know it's cross, you're out, you're brung, you got what you got. She likes the bike. That's great. Go ride it. Go get some better tires before the next race and there's some really high spendy bikes here, including one I ride. But you can go get some some uh pretty tired bike from, uh you know, the? U district auction, or go to recycled cycles and see if they have a used bike that fits you, make sure the brakes work and you know it's good, safe order and bring it out and ride it. All you really need are your tires that are somewhat suitable. How long have you been doing it?

Speaker 8: 29:57

I started in 2011. I retired from racing cars in 2011 and then took up cyclocross almost immediately after. Yeah, so I'd been a road rider since I was like nine or something and the first bicycle races I ever entered were cyclocross and I ended up wanting a different bike, and dismounting and remounting were the things to learn. Were the things to learn. The thing about Cross is that unless you're in a UCI race or something it's a make it up as you go kind of thing and so long as you're in reasonable physical health if you had a bad cardiac condition or something, but other than that, you should come try it.

Speaker 8: 30:55

It's a welcoming sport. I think both series now have ambassadors where they'll get an experienced rider who can show you how to get around. There are places you can go and learn how to dismount and remount. I've never gotten very good at either and it turns out to be not that big a deal. So, yeah, there's absolutely technique to learn, but if you can ride a road bike, you can ride cyclocross almost certainly Most people anyway. I started in 2011, and I've done it almost continuously since then. So I missed 2015 because I had total knee. Started in 2011 and I've done it almost continuously since then. So I missed 2015 because I had total knee replacement in my right knee and I missed 2020 because we all missed 2020, but other than that, I've been riding cross every year.

Tom Butler: 31:43

How many more races do you have this year?

Speaker 8: 31:47

Well for sure, the last four in the cyclocross revolutions and MFG series, and then I'll probably go do one or two in the Cascade. Depends a little bit on what. Last year I was going to go to one Cascade race and the weather was predicted to be minus 15 or something I thought. I think I'm going to skip this.

Tom Butler: 32:07

That sounds like one to skip.

Speaker 8: 32:09

But Luther Woods beautiful place, and then they do things like it's a figure 8, that crosses lie with hay bales and a marshal to help you not collide with each other and stuff like that and it's fun to do. Cyclocross is about fun and challenge and not about this. Is not formula 1, this is not.

Speaker 8: 32:31

Formula One. This is not even pro sports car racing. You don't need a 53-foot trailer and 26 people to go practice. Right, you can take your bike to the park and practice riding around in the grass and getting on and off. So, uh, it's always a really easy, inviting sport and, unlike mountain biking, where the bikes have become very sophisticated and complicated and I do that too and I have those bikes a very basic bike will serve you as a cross bike, so you always get wide enough tires on it yeah, gotcha, now you're wearing it looks like a team jersey yeah, recycled cycles racing.

Speaker 8: 33:09

Uh, is the team sponsored by Recycled Cycles and the south end of Boat Street, south end of the U District, and you know parts and commuter bike parts and other such essential stuff, especially if you're in the U District. Yeah, that's it, and the team fairly welcoming team and there's a few of us here today, I think, where you put up a tent. See you. People listening to this can't see me. I'm a very large man now, about 240 pounds.

Speaker 8: 33:43

I was 51 when I took up cyclocross. I was probably heavier than then, and so do not be thinking you're too old or that you're too heavy or too thin or any of those things. If you have cancer or something, that's a different thing, right. But if your health is fundamentally reasonable, it's a thing you should do. Not for me to tell you what you should do, but if you're reasonably healthy, it's a thing that you could try and I encourage people. It's a lot of fun, it's great exercise, it's a thing that you could try and I encourage people. It's a lot of fun, it's great exercise, it's a great workout, it develops your agility and skills and other things. So don't be afraid to come try it, even though you're post-50, post-60. Perfect.

Tom Butler: 34:19

Well, thanks so much.

Speaker 10: 34:21

You're welcome.

Tom Butler: 34:24

What's your name? David Christ, nice to meet you. David, nice to meet you. So how long you been doing cyclocross?

Speaker 6: 34:30

This is the first year recently and I did it for five or six years in the 2000s. Okay, so I'm getting back because my son's we went to Woodland Park last year and watched the race and he got hooked so I had to do it Nice, so do you do other cycling besides this? Off-road Mountain biking More cross- country.

Tom Butler: 34:53

So what draws you to this? Or how would you say this is fun. Oh, it's just stupid fun Okay.

Speaker 6: 35:01

It's like you're getting away with something riding a roadish bike on grass and mud. It's just stupid Gotcha. It's just stupid Gotcha. Yeah, the community is incredible, so it's so much fun.

Tom Butler: 35:13

Nice, what did you think of the course today?

Speaker 6: 35:16

It was really nice, really nice. The climb was challenging. Okay, there should have been a defibrillator at each top, but yeah, it was great.

Tom Butler: 35:28

So the descent down the mountain bike trail oh I, that was fun. We're coming from a mountain bike background that right that was fun how long do you think you'll do this? Are you planning on doing it for a while?

Speaker 6: 35:40

yeah, yeah, between we're working back into cross country and uh. So yeah, I see doing it a long time until I break something again and then I'll shift back to other sports. Okay, what are you riding? I've got old moots, candy brakes. So you know, the temptation is to jump up to a disc brake rig, but I don't think I can spend five digits right now.

Tom Butler: 36:12

Okay, okay. So do you think you'll do more races this year?

Speaker 6: 36:18

Yeah, we've done. I've since done all of the MFG races this year and I missed one from a broken rim. Yeah, we're doing these. We're just trying to get fit and do cross country races in the spring and we're going to try to be in shape for the BC bike race, the stage race in July, up in Vancouver Island.

Tom Butler: 36:47

So what might you tell someone who's over 60 that's considering doing Cyclocross?

Speaker 6: 36:54

You know, the standard answer is just get out and do it, but you'll find people from 5 years old to. I know there's people over 70 that are much faster than me. Everybody's out to support. It's just a ridiculously good community.

Tom Butler: 37:15

That's why you should try it. So some things that someone new to it that's coming from road cycling might want to do to prepare for a race what are your thoughts on? That.

Speaker 6: 37:25

In the early season they have training over at Marymoor on Tuesdays or Wednesday nights and really good, like cat one racers will be there to show you tips on how to dismount and ride off camber. Just you know, my son and I would go right over at St Edwards because it's a easy single track Just get familiar with, just get familiar. But you can always control how technical something is by going a little bit slower or walking. That's totally fine. So for first races, magnuson is great because it's not a very technical course, it's pretty flat and you can really control how technical it is by how fast you go. So that's a great first course. And Woodland Park, it's this silly atmosphere, so that's a blast to either go watch or go do.

Speaker 2: 38:20

Perfect.

Tom Butler: 38:22

In addition to riders, I was interested in talking to the organizers of the event. I was interested in talking to the organizers of the event so I was able to run into someone from Bell Lab who provides some technical support for MFG.

: 38:35

So tell me your name.

Tom Butler: 38:36

My name is Michael.

: 38:37

Copenhaver. How are you doing, michael? I'm doing great today. The sun's out. I can't ask for much more. So what do you think about the race today? You know they always put on such a good show here. Uh, this is a favorite course of mine. I'll be racing in the next race, so I'm looking forward to it. Um, everyone's saying it's fun course. The weather's cooperating. Um, it's great, you know answer go ahead.

: 39:00

So who are you with? Uh, I'm with bell lap productions. Uh, we are a timing company based out of seattle. Um, we do mountain bike races and road races and 5ks and that kind of stuff. So we are here helping mfg uh operate their timing setup for this race what would you say about the participation of older racers?

Tom Butler: 39:21

have you seen that increase? Is it?

: 39:23

like a big thing? No, and the funny thing is they're often some of the fastest folks out here, like they're dedicated, they always show up, they're always giving good feedback, they always come and actually do the podiums, you know, instead of just getting out of here as soon as they're done. They're really a big part of the community.

Tom Butler: 39:42

Now, I've heard a lot about the cyclocross community here. You guys do a lot of mountain bike racing what's that community like?

: 39:50

it's a lot of the same folks, to be honest. Um, you know, both of these types of cycling are known for their for the community and for being helpful and not being super elitist and, like always on the clock, strictly business kind of folks, and there has to be an element of that. You know, if you walk over and see that sketchy descent over there, you'll know that it looks fun and you've got to have a certain element about you to think that kind of thing is fun and it makes for friendly people, you know.

Tom Butler: 40:24

Well, thanks for taking the time. Casey Blue is live today. I was planning to talk with someone from MFG while I was at the event. However, it turned out that it was just too busy to pull someone aside, but I was able to get Eric Olson from MFG to jump on the phone with me. Thank you, eric, for joining me and talking a bit about MFG. I have attended a couple events now. I was at Megas Park and then also at LeMay. My son-in-law is dragging me there because he is racing now. Oh, good.

Tom Butler: 41:02

Yeah, so LeMay was his second race and it's a fun environment, so I wanted to have you on and ask you a few questions. I did some interviews with some people who were participating, who were over 60 and had some fun doing that and I just wanted to hear from you. Can you talk about kind of what your role is at MFG and then a bit about MFG?

Erik Olson: 41:27

Sure, We'll start with the organization. So there's four of us in a LLC called Off Camera Productions. It's myself, Mike McGuffin, Blaine Felton and Chris Rohde. It turns out that Mike and I are both in the 60, just newly minted 60-year-old race category, so we're both 59, but we're in that zone.

Erik Olson: 41:49

Let's see, we purchased MFG about three years ago. It had started in the I think, around 2009 zone. I should know the history better, but I don't. It started way back. Terry Buchanan, a longtime racer who I've known for decades, started it and really grew it with his partnership with Zach Dabb and some of the other folks. It was mainly Terry and Zach doing it.

Erik Olson: 42:18

Covid in the year 2020, obviously shut that all down and it remained dormant. Mfg remained dormant in 21 as well, and it remained dormant. Mfg remained dormant in 21 as well, and at that point, Terry and Zach and the team decided to pass it along to the next generation and the group the four of us came together and purchased it. So we formed an LLC called Off Camber, and the reason for that was we also wanted to do more than just cyclocross. So at this point we have and run MFG, and then we also have a gravel brand that we're starting called Grit. So that's kind of the background, a little bit of teeny bit of history. All of us come to it from a racing background. I've been racing since the mid 80s I guess, so a lot of deep knowledge in both Northwest and in. You know, racing road mountain in general.

Tom Butler: 43:18

When people think about MFG events. What is it that you guys want to have them think about? What's your goal as far as MFG, or maybe even, and maybe extends to all of Amber events? But what do you want people to think about when they think of your events?

Erik Olson: 43:37

Yeah. So the first and foremost thing and I'm not going to give you the vision statement because I probably can't remember it right off the top of my head, but the first and foremost thing is we want it to be a welcoming environment for everybody. So one of our slogans that you'll see kind of bandied about is all are welcome, and we really mean that. So we're reaching out to anyone who wants to ride a bike. We want to provide them an opportunity to do that. So last year, I would just highlight one of the things that we were really proud of is the non-binary adult category. It's a group that hasn't necessarily been accepted or necessarily welcomed, or maybe just ignored by lack of attention. But last year at Woodland Park, we had a non-binary race and it turned out to be what we think is the largest non-binary bike race ever. So we're really proud of that. So we we want to make everyone feel welcome. You know, it's not just for kids, it's not just for unicycles, it's not just for their non-binary racers, or elites for that matter. Um, it's, it's really. We want to make everyone feel welcome and feel like they have a place in the cyclocross community.

Erik Olson: 44:52

So, building on that, we try to also run our races very professionally. You know we're sticklers for getting good results as quickly as we possibly can. We want to make sure that people have all the you know facilities they need. So we're, you know, we bring in food trucks, we make sure we have enough porta-potties, we have a welcome tent, we have a trainer partnership with Wahoo and there's a tent there that people can warm up on. So one of the other kind of key focuses is getting new people into the sport.

Erik Olson: 45:23

Right, if you look at the demographics, our largest waves are the ones that have the higher categories, so the less experienced racers, you know, the cat threes and cat fours, men masters, so that's great, it's a dedicated crowd. But you know it's never going to grow the sport if we just focus on that. So one of the other things that we really focused on are beginners. So we have half price beginner races to make it kind of easy for people to go into the sport. Give it a try. It's only 25 bucks, you know it's. It's worth a shot, right, and maybe that's something that you or your son-in-law has experienced.

Tom Butler: 46:05

I do want to comment on that because it's absolutely true that my son-in-law has experienced. I do want to comment on that because it's absolutely true that my son-in-law had never participated. He had gone and watched the cyclocross race and didn't prepare anything in the first time he ever rode on a cyclocross route track I don't know what you would call them, of course, yeah, of course, there we go. First time he ever rode on a cyclocross course was when he did the warm-up before his first event, and the reason that he felt comfortable with that was that it wasn't a huge investment to participate. He threw some new tires on his bike and the entry was reasonable and he felt really comfortable participating and now I think he's he feels really hooked yeah, that's exactly what we're aiming for.

Erik Olson: 46:58

You know one of the some of the other things that we've done to try to to help new racers or new participants, and we have preview laps.

Erik Olson: 47:07

I'm not sure if you're aware of those or you are, but what we do is we get a very experienced cross racer to basically gather up at a certain time that we publish on our website and say, hey, you can ride with this cat. You know it's going to be a, you know, high category, a very experienced racer, like I said, and they'll take you through the course and they'll say, hey, here, you're probably going to want to do this or you don't want to do that and answer questions, and so it also helps people become familiar with stuff so that you're not just out there necessarily jumping around and trying to figure it out for yourself. So, between those things, I think that we've seen some really impressive numbers coming in with our beginners and then we hope it's like your son-in-law's experience, like gosh. That was a lot of fun, it was hard, but I enjoyed myself, and now I'm going to do this more and maybe it's going to resonate and maybe it's not, but we kind of want to lower the barriers to entry.

Tom Butler: 48:07

It's not, but we kind of want to lower the barriers to entry. The people that I was interviewing basically every single one, you know highlighted that the community is an awesome community. I really like it that you highlighted what you're doing, you know, and how welcoming in the non-binary events that you're offering, it seems like that is matching a dynamic that is there with the community already. It's not like you guys are trying to develop a community that's welcoming, but really matching a community that's welcoming, that exists. Is that fair to say?

Erik Olson: 48:42

Yeah for sure, cyclocross in general is a pretty welcoming community. But you know, if you go into any new situation, be it cyclocross or maybe it's any kind of event, maybe it's running or whatever If you get in there and you don't really know what the vibe is or how the flow goes, it can be a little intimidating because you're never going to do this athletic event that you know it's going to be hard for an amount of time. So what we try to do to build on that welcoming community that exists, like I said, we try to make it, like I said, easy to kind of get in and try to hold people's hands a little bit as much as we can to get them in and then, furthermore, hand to get them in. And then, furthermore, the other part of that community is really the teams, right, and we say teams it's not like a super serious thing. You got to do all these stuff to be on a team.

Erik Olson: 49:39

It's really a group of like-minded people and they can be serious, they can have fun. But what we've seen is once people they kind of find their tribe in this overall community called Cyclocross, then they'll go in and they'll find a bunch of people generally on a team that, hey, I want to hang out with these folks for the day. There's going to be a tent, maybe we'll set up a barbecue, maybe we'll just hang out and help each other. But that's kind of the next level of kind of that community. It's the overall, it's the race promoter providing that, and then it's teams that really kind of cement people in when they get kind of to that level of, you know, wanting to do it every weekend that's awesome.

Tom Butler: 50:18

I think that's great. Another thing about the people I was interviewing, where they were category four writers over the age of 60. And I'm wondering if you could comment a bit about that over 60 scene. Is that a healthy scene? Is that a scene that you see in a particular way? How do you view the older participants of the events?

Erik Olson: 50:45

You know, it's interesting kind of being in that space. I think there's kind of distinct levels. So category four is kind of someone who might be newer, maybe they don't put a lot of time on the bike, whatever, it's all good versus the upper categories. So, um, like category one or category two, what I have seen over my years of racing is that people who are into it you know, I've been racing against the same guys for 20 years and I, you know it's a real, that's a really great community because even if we're not on the same team, by and large we're all friends and we'll work really hard during the race and try to beat each other up, but after the race we're having a great time. You know, it's just a really nice vibe and I think that you could say that even over 50, certainly over 60, that the competitors, no matter what category they're in, they tend to be a lot more supportive of everyone else's endeavor. So that's kind of a really nice part of the environment.

Erik Olson: 51:43

Certainly, in cyclocross there's a lot of chance to, let's say, there's 10 or 20 people in your field and you're mid-pack, so you're almost always going to be racing for 10th. Well, there's probably a guy or two or three that you're always going to be riding with and you end up developing really good relationships with these people, that you're having this so-called race within a race. As it turns out, you kind of race against the same people and it's not just always a race for first. You want to get that 10th place, or maybe you'll get 9th this week if you have a really good race, so that keeps the racing very interesting, but at the same time, doesn't put the pressure on hey, if you don't win, you're nothing. It's hard to describe a little bit, but what I'm trying to say is there's always a chance for everyone throughout the field, no matter where they place, to have a meaningful time by competing either against themselves or against these people that they normally race with well, I uh have to say that you know meeting people and seeing it.

Tom Butler: 52:52

I, you know I'm attracted to it. You know I I've gotten back on the bike for the first time just a couple years ago. Um, I'm 61, so I I think I'm going to be shooting for getting out next fall and doing my first race. I'm not guaranteeing anything, you know. I'm going to take some classes. I'm going to see how my bike handling feels. It just looks like a great thing to participate in, so I'm looking forward to at least giving it a try.

Erik Olson: 53:24

Cool. Yeah, it's a lot of fun and you know, the other great thing about cross is you can go as fast or as slow as you want and you know, no one's really gonna really gonna care. And I think I would encourage you and all your, all the folks listening to the podcast, to come out to woodland park because that is unlike anything that that you and your son-in-law have seen so far. We'll probably have two and a half to three times the number of racers. It's going to be a big party scene. And you talk about community. I mean, this is, as far as we know, the largest cyclocross event in the world by number of racers and there's just, you know, there'll be, throughout the day, 2,000 people there and tents and hand-ups and parties. It's going to be amazing. It's just a really, really fun time.

Tom Butler: 54:14

Just to clarify, wytham Park is in Seattle. If you're in the Seattle area, come by, check it out. I'm thinking if you're two hours, three hours from seattle and you're curious, it'd be worth it to take the time. It sounds like the kind of event that is just an experience it is.

Erik Olson: 54:38

Um, we have racers that I've talked to from, uh, vancouver, uh, that are coming down and making a weekend out of it there. There should be a big contingent from Portland. If you look at two metro areas that have the largest race series, it's Portland and it's Seattle way better than anything else in the US. So their series, I think, ends this week and so I hope and I think a lot of those folks are going to come up and join our party, so that should be great. Now I want to come back to something that you asked, that I don't think I answered, but in terms of the over 60 field, it's fairly stable and I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but my impression is it's growing a little bit in the three years that we've operated. Certainly, once people get into it, they stay into it and in fact I'll give you one example we had a gentleman down at Fort Steilacoom who crashed, so I was assisting him in first aid. Anyway, you know this guy had been racing for years, he was 80 years old and you know he had crashed. He kind of cut his leg and everyone was like, oh, you should stop, and he refused to stop and just had chugged along and had a really good race and so it's fun to see the first graders going out there and the kiddie races to. You know guys like this gentleman who was in his eighties and still crushing it. So yeah, like I said, it's it's wonderful for the over 60 crowd, is good exercise, it's a lot of fun, there's a lot of community and you know people love hanging out all day and watching the watching the races towards the end of the series.

Erik Olson: 56:26

I'm sorry At the end of the series, I'm sorry at the end of the day. The way that we set it up is we have seven waves in our races. Wave six is when the elite racers go, so that's going to be the highest and fastest. Then wave seven is kind of our goofy wave, if you will. So we have our single speeders and some of those are a lot more tremendous athletes and some of them are just a lot of good beer. We have a unicycle, we have a unique unicycle category, we have a tandem category and so that's, you know, pretty much just for fun, and it's a treat watching those folks race. I really, really enjoy both the tandem and the unicyclers getting out there. My point is that kind of the end of the day, you know, after well noon that's kind of a great time to come down and watch the racing. For those folks who are interested.

Tom Butler: 57:21

Well, I'm looking forward to staying for all the races at Woodland Park. Eric Olson, thank you so much for being on coming on. I didn't have a long time to talk, but just uh, the work that you guys are doing there, I believe it's paying off. You know, the events are fun, the it's just a great environment. So thanks for coming on and sharing some information about cycle cross and about mfgFG.

Erik Olson: 57:46

You bet Happy to do it All right. Bye now, okay, thanks. Bye-bye, come on now.

Tom Butler: 58:00

Doesn't hearing from those people just make you want to get involved? I will be attending the Woodland Park event. I'll give a report on what Eric called the largest cyclocross event in the world in a couple of weeks. If I do ride in an event next year, I think it will be either the Magnuson Park event or at Woodland Park. The course at LeMay last weekend seemed too technical for me, but maybe I will get in some good training between now and then and be up to the challenge. I feel like I am a long way right now from being comfortable with mountain bike trails on my road bike with gravel tires. If I do Magnuson Park, I could also decide to do Woodland Park later on. Fortunately, there is a long time before I need to make any decision on what I'm going to do.

Tom Butler: 58:48

I want to again give a shout out to everyone in the Cycling Over 60 Strava Club. I really enjoy seeing what you are all doing. It is very, very inspiring. Thank you for sharing your biking with everybody. Whether you are someone like me and love seeing all the Strava data or someone who sees that as a distraction, I hope you are finding a bunch of safe, scenic and fun rides. And remember, age is just a gear change.