Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 3, episode 4, are we a Cycling Family? And I'm your host, tom Butler. Welcome to another episode of the Cycling Over 60 podcast. We have a little different conversation this week, but before we get to that, here's a brief update.

Tom Butler: 0:32

Last Sunday finished up the Week Without Driving Challenge. It was a very good experience for me. First off, I did drive last week, so I didn't make it a whole week without driving. One thing that made it difficult was that one of our cars had to go into the shop. I felt like that was a reasonable excuse to drive it there myself.

Tom Butler: 0:52

I did make a couple of trips for groceries without the car. One trip was to a small market just a few miles away. The other was to the large store that is the primary source of our groceries. My bike wasn't set up at the time for carrying much, so I relied on a backpack. It worked okay, but I got a limited amount of things compared to what I would normally get. Since that trip I have purchased a few things for bikepacking, so in the future I will have more capacities for trips to the store. I don't imagine biking to Costco and trying to handle the size of their packaging. But I do want to bike more for grocery runs. If I drive to the store it takes about 20 minutes round trip. To bike there back was 52 minutes. One way to look at that is that I waste 30 minutes to go on the bike, but I think a much better way is to say that I got a 30 minute ride going to the store. I believe it is that kind of mind shift that makes a big difference. I need to say to myself that it is okay to take 30 minutes more to go to the store because it is a healthier way to go Healthier on a lot of levels.

Tom Butler: 1:53

One of the biggest impacts of the week without driving challenge for me was thinking about having to rely on other people for rides. I only had one opportunity that lended itself to asking for a ride and it felt uncomfortable to me. It really drove home the message that being unable to drive can really feel like a loss of independence. I didn't take an opportunity to ride public transit last week. The one time I considered it would have meant taking a bus. That would have added two hours to my trip. It was a day that I couldn't afford. The extra time that illustrated to me a real lack of reasonable bus routes in my area. All in all, I really liked the week without driving challenge for what it taught me. I will be doing it again next year.

Tom Butler: 2:32

As I mentioned, I got my bike outfitted for bike packing this week. I will put a picture up of the setup at some good picture spot on our trip this weekend. If you aren't a member of the Cycling Over 60 Strava Club, consider joining. It is such an inspiration to me and a place to see pictures from a bunch of different rides. I love it.

Tom Butler: 2:52

I did a test ride with my bike packing setup and when I got the gear and clothes loaded on the bike it weighed 63 pounds. I don't think I want to carry more than that Now. I was only packing for a one-night trip, so it seems like I would definitely have to carry more than that Now. I was only packing for a one night trip, so it seems like I would definitely have to carry more if I went for a few days. I have a lot to learn about bike packing, so maybe I will discover how to pack lighter. One thing is it's going to be cold at night and maybe rainy, so I am packing heavier clothes than I would if it was warmer.

Tom Butler: 3:21

A challenge I had in getting my bike set up for bike packing was finding a front rack. I didn't expect it to be so challenging. I'm not putting panniers on my front rack. I'm using my Trek FX3 for this trip. It has carbon fiber forks, so I want to limit what I put on the front. I am only carrying my sleeping bag up front, but I really had a hard time finding a rack the right size for that job. I eventually did find a rack and I thought it was going to connect to the top of the fork okay. But after I got it I got nervous about how it attaches to the top fork. The rack bolts onto a braze on on the front of the rack. By the way, are bolt holes on a carbon fiber frame called braze-ons. I don't know Whatever they are called. I think that the one at the top of the fork of the VX3 is meant for something small like a headlight. So I'm really nervous about having the top of the rack attached only to this one hole in the fork. Therefore, I took a couple of straps to try and anchor the rack to the fork at the top. I'm not 100% sure that it helped, but hopefully I won't do some damage.

Tom Butler: 4:27

I expect that I will really enjoy this backpacking trip. If I do, I think I'm going to have to look for a bike that is more suited for carrying gear. That would mean that the FX3 would become obsolete. I would really hate to see that bike go, because it is what helped me get back into cycling, but it doesn't make sense to have a bike in the garage that never gets used. Of course, one of my favorite activities is to go in search of a new bike, so my disappointment of getting rid of the FX3 would certainly be at least somewhat offset by the fun of looking for something else.

Tom Butler: 5:15

Last sunday was a fantastic day. It was the first organized ride that we have done as a whole family. We did the cascade bicycle club kitsap color classic. As always, the ride was extremely well organized. We did have a few negative experiences with the ride, but it had nothing to do with the awesome work by Cascade. We almost didn't have a ride as a family.

Tom Butler: 5:31

My wife, kelly, rides a cruise bike recumbent that we had fitted with a motor by the experts at BikeSwift in Seattle. We unloaded the bikes at the start line and Kelly hit the on switch and nothing happened. We tried a number of times to get her system reset, but it didn't seem like we were going to get it going. So we started to come to grips with the possibility that she would not join us on the ride. That would have been extremely disappointing. However, I took one more close look around the battery and found a cable unplugged, and we were very happy to ride to the start together.

Tom Butler: 6:04

Riding together got me asking a question to myself Are we a cycling family? What I mean by that is are we going to make cycling the center of time we spend together? I often hear of families that make a point to go on ski trips together, and I wondered if that is how cycling is going to be with us in the future. So I decided to have my whole family join me to talk about the ride we just did and if we are going to embrace that we are a cycling family. Here's my conversation with my wife Kelly, my daughter McKenna and her husband Garen. I am excited about this as a first-time thing, I have my whole family here, so welcome McKenna, garen and Kelly. Hello.

McKenna Miler: 6:49

Hi, thank you.

Tom Butler: 6:51

Thank you so much for being willing again to come on. I just started season three of the podcast and the three of you are more responsible than anyone else for me staying on this journey, so I really want to thank all three of you. Happy to be there with you. The first thing I want to talk about is I want to talk about our latest ride. I think there's some interesting things about that. First off, this was our first organized ride we have done as a family, so I just really love that. I don't know if that means as much to all of you. I don't know if any of you kind of felt how cool that was and kind of what your any thoughts that you have on doing it as a family.

Kelly Butler: 7:38

Well, I finally felt like I was involved in the whole thing, because I've not gotten to do it with all of you before. So I felt part of the club for the first time.

McKenna Miler: 7:47

Yeah.

Garren Miler: 7:49

Well, I was going to say it's just been a long time coming because you know, there's been a lot of like oh you know, is the bike going to be ready for this ride, and then it wasn't. Or you know, is this ride going to work out, and then it doesn't. And finally we were able to get one in the books, and then it was kind of a kind of a long time coming and a lot of build up for that and almost didn't happen that's true.

Tom Butler: 8:10

Well, that's one thing like. First of all, we missed the first ferry, so I think that we have maybe some stuff to learn about getting ready to go as a family.

McKenna Miler: 8:25

If you had been two minutes faster getting your butts over 60 seconds faster, we would have made it on the ferry.

Kelly Butler: 8:35

McKenna and I were there ready to roll.

McKenna Miler: 8:39

They let someone in.

Tom Butler: 8:41

They had it shut off and then they let somebody in, like right before we got there. Yeah, okay, so we missed the first ferry. Now just to give some background. So you get on a ferry. This is called the ride is called the kitsap color classic. You get on the ferry, you take the ferry over and then you start the ride. As you're riding off the ferry, you go right into the ride. But if you miss the first ferry, then you're what, like an hour and a half later or an hour an hour and a half.

Tom Butler: 9:11

Oh no, I guess we waited 45 minutes, yeah yeah yeah, so, and I think they actually the first ferry, like they almost. They like load the bikes first and so the brakes are first off. So you take the second ferry and you have to wait for all the cars go off where you go. So we got a a much later start because of two seconds. Is that what you're saying? I think that means that we're very, very close and I feel good about that. That was our first ride. We're very, very close to having our act all together, and here's the main thing, right close to having our act all together. And here's the main thing, right, the main thing is to not unplug the battery from kelly's bike accidentally. Accidentally.

Garren Miler: 9:53

Unplugging the battery from kelly's bike is the reason that we missed the first ferry well, and the other part of that as well, as, uh, recognizing the future, that when the bike doesn't turn on, the first thing you probably should check is just the battery plug itself.

Tom Butler: 10:06

Yeah Well, it's interesting because we don't. I mean, there's a lot of things still we're getting used to with that bike and there's like this huge cable that runs under the battery and that was plugged in and so you know it had a plug on it and those plugs were together. That was plugged in and so you know it had a plug on it and those plugs were together. And so you look at that and you're like, okay, the bike's plugged in. But it's only when you kind of look under it. There's this much smaller cable that's hidden by this bigger cable that has a little tiny connector on it and that's the thing that I don't know I guess connected the computer in or something. I mean, that's obviously not where the juice is flowing, that little cable. So, but that was, that was the problem. But at the same time, what a relief it was to find out that the problem we're having, cause we were like, okay, kelly, you're not going to be able to ride, and that was a bummer.

McKenna Miler: 11:04

Yeah, that was a big deal, that was a big deal.

Tom Butler: 11:07

That was a big deal. And then to find out, oh, we just plug in this cable and we're good to go. That was awesome that it was fixed that easy.

Kelly Butler: 11:16

So the learning curve of all the connections you have to check is done and behind us, I hope.

Tom Butler: 11:22

Well, I think that the loading of the bike. I have to be more careful. The bike is something like 45 pounds and I have to be a little more careful about how I'm loading it so that I don't catch things as I'm loading it. I think that's where the problem happened. So here's why that is important. Actually, you know, not that big of a deal that we started right late. But last year when we did the Kitsap Color Classic, when we came in they had to actually hold up the finish line in order for us to have a picture in front of the finish line, because they were tearing everything down. They were actually deflating the finish line and I did not want to get in after they had broken down the entire finish line. This year Come to find out that wasn't that big of a problem.

Garren Miler: 12:19

Well, the biggest thing was they didn't have an inflatable arch this year, so we weren't in any jeopardy of it getting deflated.

Kelly Butler: 12:27

But we made it in good jeopardy of it getting deflated.

Tom Butler: 12:29

It was just a banner, but we made it in good time though, nonetheless. Oh, absolutely, I think we did make it in good time. I set several personal bests for several routes I mean several segments around that so obviously we're moving faster than we moved last year, definitely.

Kelly Butler: 12:47

Because McKenna killed the Hills.

Tom Butler: 12:49

McKenna killed the Hills and we are going to talk about that. But I would say that one of the things was the finish line was like totally different this year, right, oh yeah. So last year they had it just like on the side of the of a parking, street parking. It was just like set up in some grass just off the street parking. This year they had it at a park and they had food trucks and they had a beer garden. They had a whole bunch more set up. So they were, just, you know, gonna be there a lot longer this year than they were just, you know, going to be there a lot longer this year than they were last year. So it made it totally different. But I still like it that we made better time than last year. Garen, you have done several group rides but you weren't happy with this one. Can you talk about that?

Garren Miler: 13:44

Yeah, definitely weren't happy with this one. Can you talk about that? Yeah, definitely. I think out of all the organized group rides I've done, this one felt the most unsafe to me, and it wasn't by any fault of the organizers or of the route itself, but it was generally the traffic around us. People in the cars were very hostile. They were yelling at us. They were yelling profanities at us. They were swerving their cars towards us. They were not giving us. They were yelling profanities at us. They were swerving their cars towards us. You're not giving us enough space, maybe within a foot of us Oftentimes, big trucks were trying to roll coal on us as they're going by, and things got worse as a as a one of the local drawbridges went up for a bit and caused a pretty big traffic jam, and in that traffic drivers are getting really antsy.

Garren Miler: 14:23

And a rider in front of us we watched her almost get hit by a car at an intersection. The car made a right hand turn right in front of her and she had to lock her brakes up and almost hit the car. So just, it was really hazardous and I think it was, uh, in general not something that the organizers of the ride could really do much about. But I think it's just kind of the the nature of that area and uh, you know, those are roads with small margins. They don't get a lot of bike traffic, so we weren't used to seeing bikes out there and it just wasn't wasn't a great environment for a group ride and and I'm I didn't see anyone get hurt and I hadn't heard about anyone getting hurt, so I'm grateful for that, but I did not feel like uh, like we were very welcome in that part of the state there.

Tom Butler: 15:25

I was wondering if the good weather, because it was beautiful weather.

Kelly Butler: 15:30

Unexpectedly beautiful.

Tom Butler: 15:32

Yeah, I think, unexpectedly beautiful, it kind of cleared up and the temperature was just great. I'm wondering if that kind of hurt us, because I wonder if there were so many people getting out, you know, thinking this might be one of the last weekends of good weather, and that made the roads more busy and and that business of the roads kind of elevated the anti-cyclist sentiment that's generally the case, especially here in the city, is there's an inverse correlation between traffic going up and, uh, people's ability to be patient with cyclists going down.

Garren Miler: 16:08

The more and more congestion, the more likely drivers are going to get frustrated. They're going to be a little jerky or they're going to be pulling out quick. They're just going to be generally kind of experiencing road rage as they go around. And actually that's a reason why I was talking to a local bike mechanic here in Seattle and he was talking about the new 40-route bus line that they're putting in where they're going to change one of the traffic lanes to bus lanes and generally that's viewed as a good thing. But his specific concern from the perspective of cyclists is that reducing the car flow through that area is only going to make drivers more angry and he thinks that cyclists themselves are going to be in more danger on that road after the bus is put in, despite the fact that it'll increase accessibility to transit. So it's kind of a give and take there from that guy's perspective, but I do think it's an interesting thing to think about is that as traffic goes up, so does danger to cyclists.

Tom Butler: 16:55

I'm feeling, and I think you're feeling, like we won't do that ride again.

Garren Miler: 17:00

I'm not sure that that ride is quite worth the risk. It is a beautiful ride. I mean, it's an awesome area to go through, it's gorgeous, there's views of the ocean, there's obviously nice foliage in the fall and I do enjoy it. But if the traffic is going to be the way it was and the general energy of the people around us is going to be as negative as it was that weekend, I don't have any interest in doing that ride again.

Tom Butler: 17:22

I would say that Kitsap Color Classic is called Kitsap Color Classic because you're supposed to go out and enjoy the fall colors, Right? And we've done it twice and there hasn't really been fall colors.

Garren Miler: 17:40

Yeah, absolutely. It's always been one to two weeks early to really have a good fall color experience and I think that down here in the Valley in Seattle our fall foliage is quite a ways along. We're kind of right in the middle of it right now. But as you get up to the peninsula and as you go up a little bit, things start to change and I think that the planners might be thinking that early October is a great time for fall colors here in Seattle. But when you go over to the peninsula it's a totally different weather pattern weather pattern and unfortunately there was only like five or six trees that you could actually see some fall colors on and in matter of fact I remember last year and this year the same thing pulling into port gamble there's a whole row of of a certain type of tree that they planted across the road.

Garren Miler: 18:19

I don't know what kind of tree it is, but whatever it is, it changes earlier than anything else. So it was all summertime conditions until we get right into port gamble and then it looks like you're in the middle of a thanks theme Hallmark movie. From that point out, overall, yeah, not very much to see on the color classic.

Tom Butler: 18:37

So, mckenna, how do you feel about that ride? Did you feel like that was you've not done as many rides, organized rides. Did you feel like that was an unsafe condition?

McKenna Miler: 18:51

Not nearly as much as Garen talks about it. I know that there is a specific passion against Kitsap Color Classic because of personal experience on Garen's part that he was hit with a car.

Garren Miler: 19:02

The personal experience was me being hit by a car in Kitsap County.

McKenna Miler: 19:06

So there is some background to that by a car in Kitsap County. So there is some background to that. I feel like drivers are no less aware of bikes really in Seattle. However, there's definitely a malice out there. It seems like that you do not have in Seattle.

Tom Butler: 19:23

Yeah, I think that that's a good observation. There's more of a bikes don't belong on the road kind of mentality out there, it seems like.

McKenna Miler: 19:32

Yeah, for sure.

Tom Butler: 19:33

How about you, Kelly? How did you feel?

Kelly Butler: 19:35

You know, I hadn't thought about it until Karen mentioned it. So there was more car honking and stuff like that in retrospect, but it didn't seem that different to me on the ride itself.

Tom Butler: 19:47

And when you say it didn't seem that different, you didn't really safe on the kids up or on the port townsend tour no, I want to do real trails right. That's my goal travel right so you would be okay with not doing kids up color.

Kelly Butler: 20:01

Classic again I would be. I mean, I hate to say that because it's beautiful, it's fun, but yeah, I'd be okay because I'd be okay without so much traffic, sharing the road with traffic period on my rides.

Tom Butler: 20:15

And McKenna, how about you? Would you feel comfortable if we didn't do that ride again? Would you be okay with that?

McKenna Miler: 20:22

I think I'd be okay with that. I love taking the ferry.

Tom Butler: 20:25

Yeah, yes, so as long as we have a ferry ride in the year, then I think I'm good. I don't know, it seems kind of weird to me. I'm glad you say that, because it seems kind of weird to me that I like so much riding my bike on the ferry. It's just like that is the coolest thing, and missing the first ferry okay. So you know that experience wasn't as good as when the whole ferry is taken up with bikes. I am kind of craving to have that experience.

Garren Miler: 20:55

You could definitely sense a difference in the second ferry crowd than the first one. I think what I noticed on the second ferry was there were people that were either so serious about cycling that this ride was just nothing to them and they were like, yeah, it doesn't matter if we get there an hour late, we're just going to, we're just going to crank it out. And then there were people who were so casual about this event that they ended up just getting on the second ferry Cause they were. They had their e-bikes out there, just out for a leisurely ride today. No reason they get up early and try to make the first ferry. So I think that was the dichotomy was you had people that were so casual about this ride, they just slept through their alarm.

McKenna Miler: 21:35

And then they had people that take other things so seriously that this was just nothing for them. Multiple Ironman string backpacks on that second ferry.

Garren Miler: 21:44

Yeah, with their carbon wheels. They weren't waking up early for this?

Tom Butler: 21:56

It's only 52 miles.

McKenna Miler: 21:57

We, we've done pretty fast with that.

Tom Butler: 21:58

It's a couple hour ride. And then there was me. All four of us have different skill levels, really different things that we're doing with our riding, and so I think it is important, if we're going to ride together, that we can be flexible about, like, what rides we do. And if somebody really loves a ride, then we try to make that happen, but if people are really uncomfortable with it then we look to steer away from that. So I think that's one of those things, you know, moving forward, that I feel like maybe kitsap color classic is not a good ride for us to do as a family. Let's talk about your ride, mckenna. Now, pretty early on, you know, we come off the ferry, I don't know, I think we're like maybe five miles in, I don't know, seven miles in, we're not very far in, and you're like riding beside me saying, dad, I'm toast, I'm not going to be able to make this, I'm not going to do this. So what was going on?

McKenna Miler: 23:00

As I learn more about my body and I don't know a lot. I'm about to know a lot more and I'm really excited about that. But there's definitely a nutritional aspect where I have to be consuming enough multiple times during the ride. Like it feels almost constant right now and I don't know if that's a nutritional absorption. That's kind of the thing that we're going towards with the medical side of things right now.

McKenna Miler: 23:28

But I ate breakfast and then I didn't have anything for like an hour or two hours and then we got on the bikes. I guess it would have been closer to two to three hours and then we got on the bikes and I just didn't have any energy and I was thinking I was just out of shape because I have not kept up with cycling as much as I should be in prep for this ride and it kind of snuck up on me. But I was just thinking I was out of shape and there was just no way. I was out of breath, my legs were tired and I just thought there's no way I'm going to make it through the whole. Like I'm seven miles in and I'm like man, we've been going for 40 miles.

Tom Butler: 24:07

It was funny to me because it was very convincing, like you were very convinced that what you were feeling was not good at all. And so then we get to the 20 mile mark and there's a food stop and I'm like, okay, so you know what's up, are you going to turn around here and go back? You know what do you? What are you going to do? You're like, oh, I'm fine. I'm like, you're fine, we just rode twice as far from the point you're at where. You're like I'm dead, I can't go any further. You know, like you were presenting it like I'm gonna pull off to the side of the road here, you guys are going to have to order a car up for me to take me back or something. And then, 10 miles later, I'm fine.

McKenna Miler: 24:59

Yeah, I ate a granola bar. And suddenly I was singing while I was biking.

Tom Butler: 25:05

Yeah, whatever else was learned that day of cycling? Um what you learned was that you are a person that needs to have a continuous almost supply of glucose because you're gonna burn through it. So I think that's a good lesson and, dad, you know the nice thing about it gives me something to worry about so I can be gone. Have you eaten something? Have you eaten something? Have you eaten something? So you know it gives me something to do on the ride.

McKenna Miler: 25:41

Yeah, yeah. And part of it too was I hadn't had any electrolytes that morning and so I started really drinking electrolytes and I've doubled the amount of electrolytes I'm putting in my water bottles, which instead of half of a noon tablet is a whole noon tablet. So again, I'm going to be doing a lot of medical tests soon and kind of finding out if it is a continuous stream of glucose that I need, if that's something we can moderate, or if it's electrolytes or what's going on.

Garren Miler: 26:08

It's like you don't have a fuel tank. You're just putting the gas right from the pump into the carburetor.

McKenna Miler: 26:12

That's a great way to put it.

Tom Butler: 26:13

That's right. Another funny thing about that was so we get into like I don't know, 30 miles into the ride, maybe even 40 miles into the ride, and at one point you guys took off and I'm like I kind of like the version where she was like I don't know that I'm gonna make it, versus the 20 mile an hour version that I'm struggling to keep up with there were a lot of hills on that ride that I did not think I was gonna make it up and this was my first uh, cascade ride that I did not step off of my bike.

Tom Butler: 26:53

That was awesome and again awesome. From someone who's like starting out going, I don't feel very well. I think at one point we hit a 19% grade, which I think was the steepest that I've done, and you didn't step off and that was awesome.

McKenna Miler: 27:14

That shocked me. That was a huge moment. At the top of that hill I still see Garen's face looking back at me and I can tell he's like is she still on her bike? Did she get back? She's up here way faster than I thought she was.

Garren Miler: 27:35

Well, she never got off her bike. She took the food stops as drive-thrus. You know, just rolled right past, Grabbed a good old of ours on the way through.

Tom Butler: 27:45

So that was awesome and it was fun. I still don't understand how we can be in the same gear and you just pull away from me. But that's okay too, you know, because I'm gonna. I'm gonna grind up slow on on the hills, so that's fine, I will blame live bikes.

McKenna Miler: 28:02

I think they have some magic in them.

Tom Butler: 28:06

Okay, kelly, we need to talk about your ride really yeah oh this was your longest ride ever. Yeah, how do you feel about that distance, that 52 mile distance? Do you think that's really doable for you, or was that at the upper end of what you can handle, or or what do you think?

Kelly Butler: 28:26

I actually was tired at the end, which was good. I mean, before I haven't been too tired at the end of the rides. I am really curious to compare that to a ride that's not battling traffic the whole time. I really feel like that takes energy out of me and makes my shoulders tight. I think that was. I did feel more tension in my back this time. I mean it wasn't severe by any stretch, but I think that takes energy out of me. Yeah. So I'm super curious about riding without traffic because I think that would make it even easier. I mean, it wasn't horrible. I was glad to be at the end, but I could go farther, if that's what you're asking.

Tom Butler: 29:04

You have had some back pain since we completed the ride yeah do you think that back pain is from the ride? I do do you think there's a way of of not having that back pain, or do you think that's just going to come with it?

Kelly Butler: 29:21

oh, I think if I get strong again, stronger again and don't have the traffic, I think it'd be different. Yeah, I think you are really tight. Have the traffic.

Tom Butler: 29:29

I think it'd be different. Yeah, I think you are really tight because of the traffic and, just to remind people, you're on a cruise bike and there is this thing where you're using your upper body differently as you're pedaling, it wants to push the front wheel because the bottom bracket is connected to the front wheel, so it's connected to the wheel that turns, and so you do have to fight it.

Tom Butler: 29:53

And when you don't have the flexibility because there's something close to you, then you're trying to hold it closer when there's no cars, then you can weave a little bit and you don't have to hold so tight. That is a dynamic and I'm really curious about like, could you do some weight training? That's specifically building the strength through that so that you have more resiliency there. What do you think? I fully believe. So, yeah, if we're riding on a road that you don't feel as safe on, or not.

Kelly Butler: 30:28

Yeah.

Tom Butler: 30:28

When we rode together on the Port Townsend tour I kind of got used to descending and mom dropping back a bit because she was not descending as fast as me and then catching me on every hill. So there was kind of that rhythm that I got used to, but it seemed like that. That was something that you didn't really like.

McKenna Miler: 30:53

It wasn't really consistent enough. If it was that consistent rhythm I think I could have gotten into it, but it wasn't really consistent enough. I will say something I haven't done is take initiative to learn the routes on these rides, and so I never know what to expect, and that's definitely something that I need to do for my personality is I really need to know what the ride is going to be like approximate amount of Hills, like I'm not going to like do it before we actually write it, but I need to know more than I'm driving up and getting on a ferry and then biking for 50 miles.

Tom Butler: 31:28

I think it would be helpful for you to learn the route quite well, because there is a certain kind of aggression that you show on these rides. Do you know what aggression I'm referring to?

McKenna Miler: 31:44

I think I do. I would love to hear you explain it though.

Tom Butler: 31:47

Well, there is a certain phrase that if uttered like if you had things to throw at the person uttering it, you would throw. I'm surprised water bottles have not been thrown in the past, but that phrase is I think that's the last hill.

McKenna Miler: 32:07

Yes, that is no. You don't say that. You never say that I think it's a.

McKenna Miler: 32:17

You have a post-traumatic response to that phrase there is a certain amount of mental fortitude that it takes, and then I relax. It's like, okay, that's the last hill, and to get myself back into a serious hill grinding place takes a ton of mental strength for me. And so it's not necessarily physical, but it is a. It is a certain sort of energy that is just like you don't tell me it's the last hill until it's the last hill, until we're at the finish line. At this point I don't even want. If it is the last hill, I don't care, just until we're at the finish line.

Tom Butler: 32:58

The last hill happens when the bike comes to a stop. Then you know you're at your last hill Because you have been led astray in the past. Obviously, in the past you've been told I think this is the last hill, and then it's not the last hill.

McKenna Miler: 33:17

Even on this ride the phrase last hill was thrown out there and we had like five more hills after that.

Tom Butler: 33:25

It is such a consistent thing. Yeah, so if you knew the ride really well, then you would know where the last hill was, and then you could say no it's not the last hill, and then you could tell us this is the last hill, and then we would all know yes what I would say is that I feel like this ride has shown that, of the family, I'm the slowest member of the family.

McKenna Miler: 33:53

No.

Tom Butler: 33:54

You don't think so.

McKenna Miler: 33:55

We're not there yet. I think I'm on your tail, but I don't. I do not bike enough for that.

Tom Butler: 34:03

Let's talk about that a bit. It was a matter of you taking in the energy you needed to do the ride. I think that was obvious by the end of the ride, that it was a matter of you taking in the energy you needed to do the ride. I think that was obvious by the end of the ride, that it was a matter of you taking in enough energy to do the ride right. But you hadn't really trained enough for this ride, and I'm just wondering what you're thinking about that. Was that a mistake that you made, or is life just so busy that it's going to be really tough for you to train for rides?

McKenna Miler: 34:36

It's going to be tough. I am in a point in my life where I'm starting to really see how much I need to prioritize what I want to do, and if I just say yes to everything, I'm not going to have time to pursue my personal goals. And so from S basically from STP, until the end of this month it's been event after event after event, and I was not really expecting that. I shouldn't be shocked, because that's happened before.

Tom Butler: 35:12

I think that what you're experiencing is you're getting to a point in your life almost everybody gets to that I definitely got to where culture is not structured to really push us to be active, and so there's so many things that could get in the way. And when I started down that road I guess early 30s when I started going down that road of not prioritizing and even prioritization to me isn't the right construct, it's more like rebelling against what culture deems as important, and so I wasn't rebelling enough against that, and that's to me what led to 30 years of inactivity. So, finding that way of rebelling against cultural norms of inactivity, I think that is going to be vital it's definitely a huge part of it.

McKenna Miler: 36:18

Again, to kind of bring back the medical side of it, there is a physical to put it simply, chronic fatigue experience that I have where I need so much downtime that I would love to get to a point of health where in my downtime I'm doing physical activity to regulate rather than needing to just veg out all the time. And so certainly like getting to that point in my life like absolutely that's like more than half of it probably, but there's also a very large chunk of that that's also hopefully we're figuring that out soon but I have to be able to be active in my recovery.

Tom Butler: 37:00

And so you know again, I think that's an interesting thing about doing trips like this as a family. When it's just me out on my own, all I have to do is consider, like, what are the things that are difficult for me, what are the things that are challenges for me? But when we're the four of us are out together, then each of us brings a little bit of a different element, and to make it work out, then it's really finding a way to to handle everybody's difficulties and then also handling the fact that Garen, when he's riding with us, if he rides with us a hundred miles, it's basically like a ride to work. He's not even, he's not even worn out.

Garren Miler: 37:42

That might be a bit of an exaggeration.

McKenna Miler: 37:43

I don't know, To not slow down, going up a 19% grade to maintain the exact same speed. I mean that is some insane skill. I don't know the right word to put there. That's some insane athleticism. There you go.

Tom Butler: 38:07

Well, I think there's a couple components here. I I think that you know, one thing that's really cool for me is I think that, uh, cycling is something that kind of matches your physical abilities. Garen, would you say that that's the case? Yeah, definitely. And then, and then, on top of that, you are riding more than the three of us combined, I think. And you think that's too far here. I ride about 14 miles a day and you climb like 740 feet or something like that a day yeah it, it's around that In a mile.

Tom Butler: 38:53

So as part of your 14 miles a day, there's a mile. That's like a 743-foot elevation gain. So you are keeping yourself challenged on a daily basis that none of the rest of us are.

Garren Miler: 39:07

Yeah, I mean, that certainly helps a lot.

Tom Butler: 39:12

As we move through this conversation, we're going to circle back to that point Now. Garen, I know that you will handle bad weather and in fact, most of the time you'll be in shorts in bad weather. So I know you will handle bad weather. But, mckenna, what is your limit? What do you think about as we're getting into colder months? Do you see that there's like a definite like? I'm not going out if it's like this?

McKenna Miler: 39:50

No, no, my limit when it comes to weather is so much lower on the hot end of the spectrum than it is on the cold end of the spectrum.

Tom Butler: 39:59

Okay.

McKenna Miler: 40:00

As long as it's not like slick on the road and I don't feel unsafe in that way, I can bundle up as much as I need to. I mean, I do love living in Seattle. I do not dislike the winters here. I don't mind exercising hard and being wet from the rain while I'm sweating. That doesn't bother me at all. It's really more just about safety while biking.

Tom Butler: 40:27

Do you feel like you have the gear that you need now to be on the bike in cold weather?

McKenna Miler: 40:34

Oh yeah, for sure.

Tom Butler: 40:35

Okay, how about you Kelly?

Kelly Butler: 40:38

Well, I actually haven't even ridden in the rain yet, so I'm actually kind of excited. I want to go ride in the rain because I just want to know what it's like, because we do live in Washington and I think that the rain shouldn't stop us. So I'm very excited to see how it is leading back in the rain riding a bike. I'm very curious about how that's going to be and what it's like.

Tom Butler: 41:00

It's really interesting because we've done two rides now where the plan was that you were going to experience some rain yeah, and the weather was so beautiful on both those trips, which was awesome.

Kelly Butler: 41:13

It was great.

Tom Butler: 41:14

But you haven't had an opportunity to even test.

Kelly Butler: 41:19

Well, I've had opportunities. It rained a few days. I just didn't go out riding the bike.

Tom Butler: 41:27

But on these rides that we specifically thought you were going to be testing, On the organized rides it did not rain at all, but yeah, it was pretty fun, yeah.

Tom Butler: 41:35

so we're going to have to intentionally look outside and, oh, it's like 40 degrees and raining, let's go out for a ride. So next up it's the interesting thing because it's, you know, like what is the season? That is cycling season for us and mckinney, you mentioned seattle and it's not. It's not terrible weather here, you know. There's only a few days there. That's terrible weather here. So there's a lot of cycling that we can do with that in mind. Okay, garen, do you have some goals between now and the end of 2024?

Garren Miler: 42:14

well, I certainly have some goals, but they're not explicitly about cycling. It's about cycling and hoping to add a bit more physical activities to my repertoire, hopefully without losing the amount of cycling that I've been doing. So namely, we're going to be doing a lot more jogging and we're going to do a lot more swimming, because we want to do a triathlon at the beginning of next summer, and so we're going to start getting into the pace with that pretty soon here. So my goals are actually to diverge and branch out a little bit more from cycling, to start to incorporate some other activities and hopefully find some balance there where I can get enough exercise at all three that I'm ready for a triathlon by June.

Tom Butler: 42:47

Are you tracking miles or do you have somewhat of a mileage goal for 2024, or is that something you're not even looking at?

Garren Miler: 42:56

My goal eventually I don't really have a date for when I want this to start, but it's kind of the goal that I want to ramp up to is I want to do a triathlon per week of activity, so I want to ride the bike, you know, 25 miles, and I want to run six miles and and I want to swim a mile every single week, and if that's no disjointed to different sessions, so be it. But I think that's something that I can really, if I make good use of my time, can can get done without disrupting my lifestyle too much.

Tom Butler: 43:21

How about you, McKenna? Do you have some goals before the end of the year?

McKenna Miler: 43:24

My main goal not to say this too much, but is to figure out what's going on with my physiology and to know what I need to do to be on an athletic level physically, so that I am fueling my body in the ways that needs to be fueled and taking care of any deficits that I may have. So I don't that's my end of the year goal, but it really then goes into exactly what Garen just said. I mean, that's a goal that we have together to do a triathlon and obviously have a lot farther to go, because I don't have that built in activity in my day. But yeah, same goals of we both feel like if we can do a triathlon a week, then condensing that down to one event should be doable.

Tom Butler: 44:09

It's interesting to me and really exciting to me because part of the focus for season three, for the podcast, is personalized medicine, and you have found a provider recently that has more of that focus of looking at your individual body, how you function, how your cells function, and to try to really figure that out so that then you can dial up interventions that are tailor-made for you.

McKenna Miler: 44:43

Yeah, and it's hilarious because it kind of was born out of me having my bike fit, where I was like, oh my word, this is amazing. Like I had I really specialized shoes now from that experience and I was like I want a bike fit for my whole body, and so that's kind of been my motto is like to find a provider that can give me a bike fit for my whole body, and so that's kind of been my motto is like to find a provider that can give me a bike fit for my whole body.

Tom Butler: 45:05

Yeah, and so I'm really excited. I think you're going to be learning some stuff that will be beneficial to share on the podcast for everybody, and so that's I'm excited about that for season three and also starting that journey myself here very soon. So, yeah, awesome. So how about you? You, kelly, do you have any goals between now and the end of the year?

Kelly Butler: 45:26

I have fitness goals, but biking, I'm sorry to say, for years your um purposes that bicycling right now is for entertainment purposes. For me, it's not my main fitness preparation plan, so it's part of it. It can it could be on days that we go for rides I won't do my other things, but I am definitely going to be focusing more on weights and HIIT training and that type of thing, and I think that's fine.

Tom Butler: 45:51

You know, I think that's great because I believe the main part of cycling for you is to spend time with us yeah and so you know, and you can do that, and we've got you set up with a rig that allows you to do that. Well, at the same time, you know, you do have these other things to focus on. You do have some very specific things that you want to achieve with weight training, but it's part of that thing where it's like, again, all four of us have these things that we're focused on and that will be part of, you know, cycling in the future together is that?

Kelly Butler: 46:26

it is cool that cycling kind of intersects all of our different varied goals.

McKenna Miler: 46:31

It's pretty fun huge to me that I'm not trying to find something to do with my parents. I feel like for so many people, when you hang out with your, you're sitting at their house and you're bored or you're just like you don't have a common interest. But I can be like absolutely stimulated hanging out with my parents going on a bike ride, and that's not something that's going to end anytime soon and that is so awesome and it gives me something to look forward to. That's really important for me.

Tom Butler: 47:02

Yeah, and I love the story of this progression, now that people who have listened to all the podcasts have kind of lived this progression. But I love this progression of me saying I want to do the STP, and then Garen going, hey, I'll do that with you, and the fact that we spent time together and did that, and then that looked pretty attractive to you, mckenna, and you're like, hey, I want to join into that. And then it's like, kelly, you're going wait a second, you know, if you three are going to do that, I want to get in on that and for that to be kind of that progression and then again it kind of fitting in a good way for everything for us to spend time together doing it. I love that. There is an element of this that is missing, though.

Tom Butler: 47:55

I'm going to bring up a controversial topic right now, so every good podcast needs a controversy. I want to bring up CycleCross. All right, we talked earlier. Aaron is not getting challenged to the level that the rest of us are on the rides that we do together. So I feel like Garen needs something that challenges him and we need to support him in something that challenges him.

Kelly Butler: 48:22

So he can break more bones okay, wait a second.

Tom Butler: 48:25

You're jumping to the controversy part really fast. So, garen, can you talk about cyclocross? Is that something you're interested in doing?

Garren Miler: 48:35

yeah, absolutely. Just the other week a friend of a friend was competing in a cyclocross race over at Marymoor park, uh, and so I drove over there spectate and I'd never been to a cyclocross racer or seen any of that before, but, uh, but I showed up and he was in the category four race, which was actually a bit of a sandbag for him. He was just doing it pretty casually. Anyways, he ended up finishing fourth in the race and it was a lot of fun to watch.

Garren Miler: 48:56

I really liked the atmosphere and I liked just generally the concept of cyclocross. I liked how dirty and muddy it is and I loved the obstacles and you know, picking your bike up and throwing it over your shoulder and running with it. It seemed like a really kind of ADHD friendly way to approach cycling. It's not just the monotonous droning of road cycling we get in our endurance events. It's more like just go, go, go and you're throwing your bike around and it's a lot of fun. Watch the guy snap a carbon seat post on his cervello and unfortunately had to ride his backup cervello that day, which is just a tragedy on all fronts. But overall, yeah, the cyclocross team is really awesome to see and I and I'm uh, I'm excited to sign up for an event I want to be clear with kelly and mckenna that cyclocross is very different from like mountain bike racing.

Tom Butler: 49:39

Okay. So when you see like people bombing downhills on mountain bikes, that's different than cyclocross. What makes this controversial?

Garren Miler: 49:52

what makes this controversial is it just looks and sounds like so much fun and she just got in on the regular biking and now I'm gonna go do something even more fun without her.

Tom Butler: 50:01

That's you know, is there maybe another element from your perspective?

McKenna Miler: 50:13

We live in an apartment and we have a bike storage room. We have four bicycles between the two of us. We have two cats. Those are not two bicycles for our two cats. We have four bicycles between the two of us. We have two cats. Those are not two bicycles for our two cats. We have four bicycles between the two of us. One of those is an e-bike. That's fantastic to have. That's awesome. The two are obviously our regular bikes. We now have a mountain bike in our storage and now we're talking about another different kind of biking activity. That does sound very well suited to Garen's skill sets absolutely, but I'm a little concerned about capacity okay.

Tom Butler: 50:51

So I have a question for you, mckenna. It sounds to me like what you're saying is if you don't add another bicycle, then you're 100% on board with Cyclocross no, no, we need.

McKenna Miler: 51:02

I like having our three bikes. Four bikes is too many.

Tom Butler: 51:07

Okay. So if CycleCross meant adding no more than three bikes, then you're on board with CycleCross.

McKenna Miler: 51:17

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Tom Butler: 51:20

Okay, so let's get to the real reason. And on the way to getting the real reason, I want to quote you from this weekend, and the quote that I want to say from this weekend is Hold on, was this after or during a hill climb?

McKenna Miler: 51:38

Because then it's unquotable, because then it's unquotable.

Tom Butler: 51:42

It's very quotable, it's very quotable. So the quote is Garen has not broken a bone since we've been in a relationship together.

Kelly Butler: 51:54

Yes.

Tom Butler: 51:54

Does that quote have anything to do with CycleCross?

McKenna Miler: 51:58

To be honest, no.

Kelly Butler: 52:00

Oh.

McKenna Miler: 52:01

It's not Now. I want everyone to knock on some wood. We do plan on going snowboarding this this winter, so we don't want to say that too much okay, so you are not.

Tom Butler: 52:16

You are not protecting him from cycle cross, is that?

McKenna Miler: 52:20

no, no okay, good.

Tom Butler: 52:22

Okay, that's, that's good, because I thought that was part of it. Are you feeling like cyclocross would be a distraction from other things that you want to do?

Kelly Butler: 52:30

why don't we just ask what the problem is, what the issue is, rather than guessing 50 things?

Garren Miler: 52:38

well, we already asked her and she didn't give us a good answer, so we need to another option, another opportunity, mckenna, what is it?

Tom Butler: 52:49

because I mean let's just go back to that real quick. Is that cyclocross is not going to add an additional bike? The roubaix is the cyclocross bike, so it doesn't add additional bike.

Garren Miler: 53:01

This is actually a corded gang up on you, so clearly garen needs something to do.

McKenna Miler: 53:10

while I have introvert time and this seems like something that would fit that very well and he has friends, are we able to physically and financially support another activity on top of just getting started with swimming and running and wanting to do triathlons? It doesn't seem like the right time to add something else into me. Partially, I'm not bored. I'm very overwhelmed with everything that we're starting to do and trying to figure that out in my own brain, whereas Garen's like I need more. I'm not getting enough, and that is definitely a balance in our relationship that I appreciate. But that is genuinely my concern. Is that capacity.

Tom Butler: 53:59

Okay, well, I think that's a fair concern. So I would like to support Garen in this cycling endeavor in any way, because I think it would be super fun to go to cycle cross races and watch him race. I think it would be fun. So this, this is not off the table, right? Cycle cross is not off the table.

Kelly Butler: 54:21

Maybe that's the way that we can. It's pretty much.

Tom Butler: 54:24

it's very much on the table, so I think that's maybe a good way to leave it for this cycling discussion. Okay, here's. Here's a question. I would describe myself as a cyclist. Are we a cycling family?

Kelly Butler: 54:37

Yes.

Tom Butler: 54:38

Oh, absolutely.

Kelly Butler: 54:39

Yes. Given the fact that we cycle together, I would say yes. I don't know what you mean by cycling family.

Tom Butler: 54:44

Well, I think there's some ramifications of us saying we're a cycling family. Mckenna talked about it a little bit earlier. It's like this is a way to spend time together. That is a really good time together. So I think if you're a cycling family, then you kind of look to the future and say, okay, what cycling are we going to do together? You know, this is something that we do, that we travel and we go on cycling events and everything. So kind of you look to the future and saying, as a cycling family, what do our events look like in the future? Just like if we were a skiing family, we would, yes, yes, you know, do ski vacation.

Tom Butler: 55:18

So we just started season three uh, the podcast and we'll be going season three till next September. So what are some of the experiences you want to have as a cycling family this season?

Garren Miler: 55:28

So something that I've done before that we haven't done together as a family is is ride the iron horse trail and specifically ride the tunnel at the top. I've done that last about, actually but last October, about this time, I rode the tunnel with a friend friend and I'd love to do that as a family because that's a really awesome ride. It's a two-mile-long tunnel. There's an awesome little market on the other side you can ride to hot soup on a cold day, and I'd really love to do that with you guys.

Tom Butler: 55:54

I think that that is a thing to do for a couple different reasons. That is the Cascade Palouse Trail, right, that's true. I is the Cascade Palouse Trail, right. I think that we're going to want to spend more time on the Cascade Palouse Trail because it's a gravel trail.

Kelly Butler: 56:07

I agree.

Tom Butler: 56:08

So that's one thing definitely on the list of things to do this season. Another thing on the list to do this season is STP, right? Yes, McKenna, you are like I didn't get an opportunity to finish STP, so how motivated are you to do STP?

McKenna Miler: 56:24

Just try to hold me back.

Tom Butler: 56:26

Okay, and so that means you know some training, some pretty serious training.

McKenna Miler: 56:31

I think if I'm training to do a triathlon, maybe even before, then I'm not going to be too worried about being able to do STP.

Tom Butler: 56:40

Perfect Gotcha. Worried about being able to do STP, perfect Gotcha. Okay, one thing that I want to do for season three is I want to do some organized rides outside of Washington state, and so tour de Victoria. I've heard some really good things about that. Are we all on board with that?

McKenna Miler: 56:56

Absolutely A hundred percent?

Tom Butler: 56:58

Do we want to do a ride in the fall that actually does have fall colors?

McKenna Miler: 57:03

Yeah, for sure.

Tom Butler: 57:06

So I'm going to have to do some research on that and, even if it means taking a bit of a road trip, maybe we should try to find some place you know, maybe in Canada even that has really good fall colors and do that ride. I think that would be fun to work on.

McKenna Miler: 57:21

Something you did last year that I don't necessarily want to do an organized ride to do this, but I've just heard about how beautiful it is out in the Woodland Hills and we just I've never been out there, really out on trails out there, and I think that that would be really fun to do a bike ride, even just the four of us out there, to have some beautiful scenery or even just to see some cool areas.

Tom Butler: 57:46

I think that's a great idea. Okay, there's a couple other things. One is the Olympic Discovery Trail. I think we have this resource, this park. That is absolutely amazing and I feel like we definitely, this season, want to have some experience on the Olympic Discovery Trail. Yes, for sure. And then Pedal Relief. So Pedal Relief is a project of the Cascade Bicycle Club where they deliver food from food banks to people that need it, or deliver food from suppliers to the food banks. Is that something that we want to do as a family?

McKenna Miler: 58:28

That was like the first thing that I wanted to do when I started cycling Nice.

Tom Butler: 58:33

I think that would be a wonderful thing to experience as a family and, you know, maybe we're going to experience it once and go, man, we want to do that, you know, every few months or something, so I'm anxious to do that. We will be doing something new this season, which is dipping our toe in the water of bikepacking, so I am excited about doing that and I'm glad that you guys are joining me in that.

McKenna Miler: 59:01

I also have not done a critical mass ride. I would love to do that.

Tom Butler: 59:05

That's where a bunch of people kind of just take over the streets of the city of Seattle. I think, garen, you'd be interested in doing that right.

Garren Miler: 59:13

Certainly yeah.

Tom Butler: 59:14

Okay, so let's put that on the calendar at some point. So I'm liking how the calendar is filling up already. I think that's great. You might have to at some point think together about how many weekends we're going to set aside for cycling. What is the maximum number? But that's a conversation we could have. Here's something I would really be interested in you guys participating in. You guys participating in. I would like each of you to think about. Would you like this season of the podcast to cover a specific topic or reach out to a specific guest or kind of guest? If you were going to give a recommendation, what would you recommend?

McKenna Miler: 59:58

I have one.

Tom Butler: 59:59

Okay, go ahead, McKenna.

McKenna Miler: 1:00:00

I love a bicycle as a social justice tool and for me, environmental justice is social justice and I know that you have talked to people kind of on the East Coast but thinking right now about the hurricanes that are going through there and how we're having our first climate related hurricane when it comes to fossil fuels, I think talking about bicycles as a tool of environmental justice, finding someone who specializes in that intersection for me personally would be super interesting and I think that it ties in very well with your longevity goal for this season.

Tom Butler: 1:00:41

I like it. I'll be looking for it. Awesome, how about you Garen Any thoughts?

Garren Miler: 1:00:46

Yeah for sure. For me, I think one of the most inspiring stories I've heard in a baby ever is the story of Kristen Faulkner at the Olympics and how she didn't even start cycling until she was 24 years old during the pandemic and that's when she got into the sport. And to win an Olympic gold within four years of her even buying her first bike is just incredibly inspiring, and I think that that'd be a great thing to try to find people to get on the podcast that are kind of these quote unquote like late bloomers when it comes to athleticism, like people that later on in their life really find their passion and kind of defy expectations in that way, Because I think those stories are just so inspiring for people of any age to be able to get out there and find the thing that they love.

McKenna Miler: 1:01:25

So how old was she when she started cycling?

Garren Miler: 1:01:28

24.

McKenna Miler: 1:01:29

How old are you?

Garren Miler: 1:01:30

I am 24. Okay, which is why you have to do cyclocross pretty soon.

Tom Butler: 1:01:34

Yeah, it sounds like you're saying you're expecting him to win an Olympic gold 19% grade.

McKenna Miler: 1:01:42

did not change how fast he was, so there's something there.

Tom Butler: 1:01:49

Okay, Kelly, how about you? What are you thinking as far as a guest that you'd like to see?

Kelly Butler: 1:01:54

I'm actually interested in relationships and how they relate to longevity and how important they are to longevity. And we do know of Bruce who focuses on relationships and conflict resolution and just teamwork and just really fantastic with relationships and I think it would be really fun to have him on to talk about how that would impact longevity.

Tom Butler: 1:02:18

I think that's a wonderful idea. I think I will try to work on that. I think that's a wonderful idea. I think I will try to work on that. We are actually participating in one of his programs called the conflict'd be really fun to, once we get through that, to see if we can invite him on the podcast. I'd love to do that, yeah.

Tom Butler: 1:02:48

I'd really like. Well, again, the three of you have been super important for this journey for me. I'm so appreciative. It was so fun going as a family and I want to thank you all and, uh, thank you for for coming on and we'll move forward as a cycling family thank you so much.

Kelly Butler: 1:03:13

I love having all of us on here yeah, thanks for having us it's fun all right I do have to say I was marveling on this last Kiss, that Color Classic ride and how amazing it is to be riding with our kids and having a super fun time active. And it was such a gorgeous day Just took it over the top and I was just beaming, just filled with gratitude, the whole day.

Tom Butler: 1:03:37

It was amazing, I agree. All right, Bye for now. What an awesome thing to have so much support from my family. In two years I've gone from doing very little activity to being able to make cycling the core of the time we spend as a family. I see this as one of the biggest factors that will allow me to keep cycling later in life. I know that McKenna and Garen won't have the flexibility that I have and they won't be able to do every ride with me. That actually isn't really necessary, but as we plan out our year, there is a ride we will do almost every month. That is a big boost to my motivation to stay fit. I hope you are having some rides that are as beautiful as ours was last weekend. And remember age is just a gear change.