Kelly Is Getting a Bike

Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season two, episode 35,. Kelly is getting a bike and I'm your host, tom Butler, in the episode. Last week I started planning for this season's challenge. I'm looking to ride about 400 miles across the state of Washington. I originally planned to ride 100 miles a day and take a rest day in the middle for a five-day trip. However, I can't work out places to stop that would accommodate that schedule, so I'll be riding all five days but putting in less miles per day. This week I finished the route planning from where I left off.

Tom Butler: 0:49

Last week. I really wanted to stop for the night in Winthrop and riding five days would allow me to do that. From Winthrop I will ride 76 miles to Tenasket and climb 2,654 feet. Leaving Tenasket, I do 92 miles to Kettle Falls. Google doesn't exactly follow the route that I will be doing. I am using the map for section one of the Northern Tier route provided by Adventure Cycling Association. For the section between Tenasket and Kettle Falls, google says I will be doing 7,720 feet of elevation climb. I am taking it for granted that that is very close. The final day will be Kettle Falls to Newport, which is 96 miles and 2,976 feet. I think this is a pretty good idea of the route. Putting it all together, I am looking at 422 miles and a climbing total of 21,552 feet. I feel like that would certainly be an accomplishment for me. Maybe at some point I need to figure out more precisely what the route looks like, or maybe that is close enough and I can just discover the route as I go.

Tom Butler: 1:58

Aside from route planning. I've made a decision to start wearing the continuous glucose monitor again Right now. It seems like I need the feedback to be consistent with my meals. I just haven't done a good job since I stopped wearing it. I'm going to wear the CGM for the month of April and then again see how it goes without it. I am hopeful that when CGMs are available over the counter this summer, that the price will be low enough that I can wear one as much as I want summer. That the price will be low enough that I can wear one as much as I want. As I have mentioned before, my goal for the rest of my life is to be as lean as possible, and it seems like I do need the monitoring in order to stay on track to do that.

Tom Butler: 2:44

I'm really excited right now because my wife, kelly has decided to get a new bike and join in my cycling adventures. She definitely won't be doing the ride across Washington with me, but her purchase of a bike does open up a different dimension of riding. I asked Kelly to come on and talk about her expectations of cycling together and her new bike. I thought I would also do a bit of an experiment for this episode. I'm always interested in the social aspects of cycling, so I talked to three people who will be doing a lot of rides with Kelly and me. They are Jesse Ferguson, who helps out with production of the podcast, and, of course, our daughter McKenna and her husband Garen. After my discussion with Kelly, I asked them to make some predictions to see if they have a good idea of how Kelly will do as she gets up and going with her new bike. Here we go. I am here with Kelly Butler, who's joining me on the podcast for the second time. What is your relationship to the Cycling Over 60 podcast, kelly Butler?

Kelly Butler: 3:45

Never considered that question. I might be the official voice of reason that has no impact.

Tom Butler: 3:57

That is just fundamentally not true. Voice of reason part might be true, but you are definitely definitely influential. You have another relationship that is possibly beginning.

Kelly Butler: 4:13

Yes.

Tom Butler: 4:13

You're knocking on the door of 60 years old Yep. So you're not quite in the point where you can be cycling over 60, but you're pretty close.

Kelly Butler: 4:22

Just over a year.

Tom Butler: 4:24

Just over a year from now and we are getting you a bicycle.

Kelly Butler: 4:29

Yeah.

Tom Butler: 4:29

You will be joining in to the club of cycling over 60.

Kelly Butler: 4:35

Yeah, that's crazy. I did not anticipate that.

Tom Butler: 4:38

You did not anticipate that you would be biking with us.

Kelly Butler: 4:42

Well, no, because the bike that I've been using has not been comfortable, so it's not one that I thought I'd go on any long rides with. And since my daughter was of the same opinion, for a long time I thought I was safe, and then she abandoned me, she betrayed me. That's what she did.

Tom Butler: 4:58

So you were perfectly comfortable with the dynamic of Garen and I riding and you and mckenna like hanging out together yeah, that was great she ruined that ruined it entirely I'm not sad, not surprised. I'm not sad about that because I'm really excited that we could be, that we could be riding together yeah, I think it'll be some good times we haven't actually ordered the bike for you.

Tom Butler: 5:26

We're ordering it online because it's a cruise bike and there's not a dealer near us, so we're ordering it online. We're going to participate with their 100 mile test drive, so it is possible that you wouldn't like it and we would send it back. They pay for shipping to send it back, so we're going to do that. So, without any delay, I think we should head over to the computer and we should order the bike.

Kelly Butler: 5:56

Really yes.

Tom Butler: 5:58

Right now.

Kelly Butler: 5:58

Okay, let's go.

Tom Butler: 6:00

Okay, we are sitting at the computer and you have the cruise bike website up, which is cruisebikecom C-R-U-Z bikecom no E, and ready to go. So the first thing you needed to decide was what model you were going to choose, and that was a lot of discussion and not to get deep into that, you decided to go with the cruise by S40, which I think is roughly like. The 40 represents the amount degrees, the tilt of the seat, so you can get a 50, you can get a 45, which is adjustable, you can get a 20. The 45 to the 40 to the 20 reflect leaning back farther, and so, after a lot of thinking about it, you chose the S40.

Kelly Butler: 7:00

Right.

Tom Butler: 7:01

Here's one of the most important questions Uh-huh, what color did you? Choose to get Well, First talk about. There's three options. How would you describe the three options?

Kelly Butler: 7:15

Not ideal for me.

Tom Butler: 7:17

Okay.

Kelly Butler: 7:17

Right. So there's a kind of a darkish blue, medium dark blue with orange design on it. Not a deep deep blue, no, no, so more of a medium blue with orange design on it, which I really don't like. It just does not appeal to me. Then there's a bright orange and then there's a green, kind of a light earthy green a little bit. I don't know how to describe it. So between those two was my decision making.

Tom Butler: 7:46

Because the orange was out.

Kelly Butler: 7:48

Well, no, the orange has an appeal because to do something spunky on the spur of the moment which you know I like to do stuff like that Orange fits that, but I've never been a fan of the orange color.

Tom Butler: 7:59

Okay, and so I'm going to go with the green one.

Kelly Butler: 8:01

I think it Okay, and so I'm going to go with the green one. I think it. I don't have much green in my life but I think it. The palette, the color palette kind of fits what I do have better than the orange does. It's going to be part of my relaxation, part of riding the bike is the green it looks. It looks more mellow to me than the orange.

Tom Butler: 8:21

Gotcha, I don't see myself as as particularly mellow, but I don't see orange is just not my color, okay, so yeah, I just don't buy orange.

Kelly Butler: 8:32

Yeah, you have like a copper color helmet. I don't know if that's yeah, that would totally clash with the orange, I feel. I don't know, it doesn't go. None of these really match me. That's my struggle. Neither of them really match me, but and this bike is pricey yep it is the most expensive bike of all your bikes. That's horrible, the least invested in biking and I have the most expensive bike.

Tom Butler: 8:57

That seems wrong, very wrong I think it seems right because I think we're a little more invested and tolerate more discomfort than you would tolerate. We are buying this bike for you to really enjoy, and I don't think you inherently enjoy at this point cycling as much as we do.

Kelly Butler: 9:22

Maybe not, but that's partly because I'm not comfortable. I mean, as a kid I loved riding bikes. It was the wind through your hair and just flying around was really fun to me, but it's just not been comfortable and I have, you know, significant issues, significant-ish issues with my neck and shoulders and wrists, and so I've just not enjoyed long rides.

Tom Butler: 9:44

Yeah, that is the main appeal for getting the cruise bike, and the cruise bike is a more expensive bike.

Kelly Butler: 9:52

Right.

Tom Butler: 9:54

I think it's time to go ahead. We've not pushed purchase, we haven't, but I think it's time to do that. But before you do that, you also are adding to this purchase a.

Kelly Butler: 10:07

Suspension adjustable headrest.

Tom Butler: 10:09

Okay, so again, your neck is one of those things, and part of the issues with your neck is that you've kind of gotten tweaked from your profession.

Kelly Butler: 10:20

Yeah, maybe if I waited a year and did the weight training and stuff that I'm planning to do anyway, I wouldn't need this bike. But I don't want to wait a year to be part of the family excursions.

Tom Butler: 10:31

I don't think it's that kind of an element, you know, of like being on the edge of needing it. I don't think we're looking for something you know it's like do some work and be more comfortable. I think this is the right bike from you. I think there's a lot of reasons why it's really good. I hope so, yeah, and again, you've got 100 miles to test it, and if you find that you know this isn't good, then do something different. Yep, okay, go ahead and hit purchase. Will they deliver?

Kelly Butler: 11:09

it to the house. They will definitely deliver it to the house. They will definitely deliver it to the house. Okay, shipping is free. Nice, I'm gonna hit it now.

Tom Butler: 11:14

Okay, so we're at that point. It's time to purchase your bike look at that okay, you have a bike on the way. Yay, I wonder how long it takes the ship. Now I'm going to be.

Kelly Butler: 11:26

Well, I saw somewhere, it ships next day.

Tom Butler: 11:29

Wow, since you have purchased this bike now, I think there's a few questions I want to ask you.

Kelly Butler: 11:38

Oh fine.

Tom Butler: 11:40

To get your perspective on things. First, can you talk about why the recumbent was attractive to you? I did an interview with Jim and Maria Parker on February 16th. Anybody listening can go back and hear that interview.

Kelly Butler: 11:57

Yeah, that really influenced me a lot.

Tom Butler: 12:00

What did you hear?

Kelly Butler: 12:02

Well, it's impactful to me that someone who is a professional athlete and done it the traditional way for so long and was actually quite resistant to trying to recumbent, but when she tried it it was like a world changer for her. That's a compelling story to me Then. That made me want to look into it a little bit more and I just felt like, if I'm going to be participating with my family for the long haul and staying active, it just seemed like, for sure, the best route on a bike.

Tom Butler: 12:36

I think there were some specific things. She was talking about wrists, about you know you're not holding yourself up with your wrists. It seemed like that was a factor. The sitting on the seat I think that was a factor for sure.

Tom Butler: 12:51

I think that was the main thing. I mean you weren't looking, oh, I can go faster, or anything like that. You were looking at the comfort of being on the cruise bike right and for you. And again, you're close to 60. If you're going to join me in this cycling over 60 adventure, then it's got to be more comfortable for you. Are you nervous at all about getting a new bike, especially like a pretty expensive bike?

Kelly Butler: 13:20

Well, I would be nervous if I couldn't return it. I mean that that gives me a cushion to fall back on. That really takes all the stress off of me. Honestly, I would be if I really had questions. I mean, if I had serious questions about whether I could write it, learn to write it, or if I didn't think it would work for my particular pain issues, then I would be really nervous about it.

Kelly Butler: 13:46

But I've just seen over and over people with my particular pain issues have just loved it. So I'm not concerned really about pain. I am used to having some discomfort, you know, no matter what you're doing, so it's not like it has to be absolutely in a float tank type comfort. I guess the things that I have questioned is I'm curious about, since you kind of have your head on a headrest, how bouncy that's going to be. You know suspension wise. I'm curious about that. So I am curious about what it will feel like on my neck. My neck is my biggest issue really, and so I'm curious about how it's going to translate to how that will feel really.

Tom Butler: 14:25

And so I'm curious about how it's going to translate to how that will feel. Do you feel like you are?

Kelly Butler: 14:33

committing to something like riding with us, that you're not sure that?

Tom Butler: 14:35

you can commit to.

Kelly Butler: 14:36

A little bit, yeah, okay.

Tom Butler: 14:36

Yeah, do you see this as changing the way we spend time together?

Kelly Butler: 14:41

Yes, currently I have not been riding with you at all because your training rides are just not doable for me at all, and so I've not even tried. I've gone on short rides with you just for something to do. You know non-training ride, but that's few and far between, and I've been busy and not prioritizing moving my body as much, and so I mean I'm committed to more movement, and so translating that into doing more of that with you is going to look very different from what it's been like for the past. How many years we've been married? 30 years, 30 plus.

Tom Butler: 15:14

Is there a potential downside to this, whereas quite frequently, on a Sunday, you'll get rid of me for a few?

Jesse Ferguson: 15:22

hours.

Tom Butler: 15:23

You'll get rid of me for a few hours. And now, and so you're at home doing whatever you want to do for a few hours. And now those couple hours or three hours, whatever you're going to be off with me.

Kelly Butler: 15:39

Is there a downside to that?

Tom Butler: 15:40

Yeah.

Kelly Butler: 15:42

Well, maybe not every Sunday. You still need me to go off and do stuff. Yeah, I'm curious to see how many family rides this is going to turn into. How many rides is it going to really translate into us riding with the kids? I'm curious about that.

Tom Butler: 16:00

I just see that as such a positive thing If we can be more active as a family together and I think I've been seeing that you know McKenna's been riding for a couple months now and we into more family trips together, which I think is a very healthy dynamic as far as us staying with it.

Kelly Butler: 16:32

It was a huge motivator for me.

Tom Butler: 16:34

And you like to be active, no doubt about it, right? And you also, I think, have not felt like you've been as active as you, as you would like to be right? So if this changes that, I see that as huge for sure. Do we need to talk about your earliest memories of biking with me?

Kelly Butler: 16:54

oh my goodness, do we are you nervous? Based on our earliest memories of biking together, of biking with me, I'm not nervous because that had such a impact that I don't think you're going to take any chances so I'm gonna let you tell your story about what happened okay, so my side of it is, we were riding with two, two friends, so four of us were riding bikes together on the beach, somewhere on a path along a beach, and we're having a blast.

Kelly Butler: 17:34

And I was riding along and you came up behind me, unbeknownst to me and from my perspective. I was just instantly on the ground. There was like you hit my back tires in a way that there was just no, there was no fighting it, there was no trying to correct it, I was just boom, I was just on the ground. And so I think what? And we weren't even married, we were dating, right.

Jesse Ferguson: 17:58

Yes.

Kelly Butler: 18:01

So I think it was one or two times that I was not happy with you while we were dating, because you made you in my mind.

Tom Butler: 18:09

No wait, let's stop here. You weren't unhappy with me because I took you down.

Kelly Butler: 18:14

No, I wasn't happy with me, with you, because you just insisted that it was because I was a poor writer, that I should have been able to handle that, and it was. You could have done that and I should have been fine. Like really, you're going to go there, you insist it, so I'm like fine.

Tom Butler: 18:39

We've had this conversation so many times about that incident. Not in a while, though it's been a while since we've talked about it. You've never recounted I've never this conversation so many times about that incident. Not in a while, though. No, it's been a while since we've talked about it.

Kelly Butler: 18:47

You've never recanted.

Tom Butler: 18:48

I've never recanted. I think I have, I think I have said I'm really sorry. And still in my mind I've got this philosophy that yeah, being sorry is not recanting.

Tom Butler: 19:04

It's a very different concept not recanting to be clear, you're asking me to recant that. I thought that you needed to be to have more skill as a cyclist. Okay, so here's what I want to say in my defense. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what I would like to say is that I did not go down. I bumped your back wheel slightly with my front wheel.

Kelly Butler: 19:30

Just barely kissed it, huh.

Tom Butler: 19:34

I felt like I just barely hit it it didn't even disrupt my riding at all and I'm hitting my front wheel and you went down and I immediately felt like. I immediately felt sorry. I totally felt sorry about that.

Kelly Butler: 19:49

I believe that that's why I wasn't upset at you. I know.

Tom Butler: 19:52

And again, you would not have been upset by me accidentally taking you down out and like on some grass in place and just smacking each other on the bikes so that she can feel more comfortable with recovering from getting bumped, but as someone who was trying to win you over.

Kelly Butler: 20:16

You didn't do the right approach, but somehow you still managed. But that was not the right approach I will be very careful I know you will be very careful.

Tom Butler: 20:25

Some of these questions I'm putting to Jesse He'll be riding with us and also I was putting to Karen and McKenna, so it'll be interesting how they answer some of these questions, including the what color did Kelly choose? How are you feeling about doing the 20 mile Emerald City ride on May 5th? That's 20 miles. It's 764 feet of elevation. It's not tremendously difficult, elevation wise, but it is some elevation gain.

Kelly Butler: 20:57

Well, my question is how much riding time am I going to get in between now and then? How comfortable, because I understand that it can take a lot of miles for some people to get comfortable riding it. So I don't know what to think about that. I really don't know. You seem to think I'm going to learn it quick, but I have no idea.

Tom Butler: 21:13

Well, let's talk about that. I'm thinking if it shifts out immediately, you'll have a month between now and the time we do that ride. The question is do you think you can master it in a month? I think this is an important distinction. Are you more nervous about climbing than you are about going downhills?

Kelly Butler: 21:35

Well, I'm not in good shape at the moment. I'm not in decent, I'm not in very good shape. So I'm probably more nervous about going up, because I don't think it's going to have the motor on it, because we do intend to make an e-bike, but I don't think it's coming on by then. I think I'll still be on the trial period at that point.

Tom Butler: 21:52

How do you feel about walking your bike up a hill?

Kelly Butler: 21:55

I'm not embarrassed by it. Yeah, no.

Tom Butler: 21:58

You feel safe. You don't feel confident, but do you feel at this point that in a month you'll feel safe going down a hill?

Kelly Butler: 22:06

That's a huge open. I have no idea. I really don't know.

Tom Butler: 22:10

So it's going to be interesting to see how that, how that, comes about. But you are registered for that ride, which is fine. It's just a donation to Cascade Bicycle Club If you don't go. One thing about getting a cruise bike is it does not ride like a traditional bike. I'm going to use traditional bike to describe what you know a diamond frame bike or Ancient bike.

Tom Butler: 22:39

It does take a little bit different skill. Now there's this really interesting video. A little bit different skill. Now there's this really interesting video. Okay, there is this guy who does a podcast called Smarter. Every Day, what he is showing is that there's this bike that has been modified and what happens is that when you turn the handlebars to the right, the wheel turns to the left. Now he has been bicycling all his life and so he's learned to ride a bike.

Tom Butler: 23:12

You know as a kid, sometimes it takes a bit to learn to ride a bike and then you and then you get used to it and then you don't really think about it. It's like your brain is not engaged as you're riding a bike usually. But he was having to think super hard and he could not ride this bike. There was a big part of it that his brain was not able to just comprehend how to ride this bike, so it ended up taking him eight months to ride the bike the modified bike and then, after eight months of working to do this, then he at one point went back to ride a regular bike and he could not ride that and it took him some time. I don't remember exactly how much time it was but a lot of tries before he was then able to ride a normal bike that he had been used to riding his whole life, because his brain started thinking differently. I think there's an element of this and like what's happening with the brain with the cruise bike, because it's different enough when you're pedaling on the same mechanism where the steering is, you have to get used to that feel because you're putting pressure on the pedals in the same mechanism in which you're using to turn. You know they talk about that. It's a process to learn how to ride a cruise bike.

Tom Butler: 24:36

I think there's some interesting brain stuff going on here. So the cerebellum is where we learn about coordination and balance and you know there's some interesting stuff about how, what happens, what's actually happening within the cerebellum, about how we learn new physical behaviors. Yeah, I don't fully understand it, but there is this mechanism by which a behavior done over and over and over again starts getting laid down in a way in the cerebellum, so it becomes automatic eventually for the brain to do it. Now it was interesting because this guy from Smarter Every Day his son, who is young, or was young at the time it took him like eight days to learn how to ride this bike. So you know, there is this difference between a young brain and how easy it is for the cerebellum to make these shifts, than for an older brain, than for an older brain.

Tom Butler: 25:45

There's another really interesting aspect of this is that it seemed like his brain and I don't think the cerebellum is the only place where this is going on, but it seemed like his brain struggled, struggled, struggled, struggled and then suddenly everything clicked and it worked. It wasn't like a completely linear progression where it's getting oh, I'm a little bit better than I was yesterday, a little bit better than that, a little bit better than that. It was like a struggle, struggle, struggle. Then something clicked and there was this big jump in ability.

Kelly Butler: 26:17

Well, it'll be interesting to see if there's the same correlation with this, because it feels like when you're riding a bike that functions completely the opposite, your brain is. I mean, it's intuitive If you lean right and you turn right, you're going to go right. It's very counterintuitive. It's like your brain has to deny what feels like reality, to do the opposite. On a bike where the steering wheel is switched, it seems to me like the cruise bike. You're not really having to trash basic gravity and basic momentum and inertia. It's like it's having to go against all those natural laws to function. On that other bike, it doesn't seem to me like the cruise bike is quite that far. So I'll be curious to see if there's just a click time or if it just is a little bit more linear than that.

Tom Butler: 27:02

I think that's a good observation. I think that there's a lot of things that transition over for a cruise bike, but I still think there is this automatic thing that is in your brain from learning to ride a bike and spending enough time on a bike for that just to become automatic. That, I think, is going to be similar. So I'm expecting there to be this period of struggle, struggle, struggle and then it clicks. That's what I'm expecting. Now Cruise Bike is saying that they want you to take at least 100 miles in order to figure out whether or not it's going to click for you. I don't know. I'm sure they're being generous with that, but I hope so.

Tom Butler: 27:46

Yeah, but I think that I think there is going to be a possibility that you're going to struggle, struggle, struggle and then all of a sudden it's going to click.

Kelly Butler: 27:52

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see.

Tom Butler: 27:54

Do you have some thoughts about what it's going to look like when you are learning to ride?

Kelly Butler: 28:03

Well, the first thought I have, I know, is not correct In my mind. I'm just like, okay, I'm going to get on the bike and it's going to be a little bit weird for the first 10 minutes, and then you'll get it and you'll be a little weird to ride it, and I think that's completely false. So I really have. I have no idea how long it's going to take and what that's going to look like.

Tom Butler: 28:30

I think that may be a comment on how easily you've learned to do new things in the past. I don't know. I think that's something I've definitely experienced with you is that you pick up on things pretty quickly. There is this thing called Flintstoning that they talk about, where you're just kind of like moving yourself with your legs, just trying to get the feel of how different having kind of more weight in the front with the derailleur and the chain and everything tied to the front wheel Then it's a little bit different from a balanced perspective how the bike is balanced. So they have that and then they want you to get on a slope and go down. It is possible that people are going to be watching you Flintstoning and struggling with this. How do you feel about maybe being observed struggling?

Kelly Butler: 29:18

It doesn't really bother me.

Tom Butler: 29:20

I'm not surprised. It's a funny looking bike. I'm not surprised.

Kelly Butler: 29:22

It's a funny looking bike, so you know I'm going to have to be okay with people thinking I look what Like a.

Tom Butler: 29:31

Like. You're disabled Like.

Kelly Butler: 29:32

I'm disabled. Yeah, I mean, it's a very unusual look to the bike, so I'm probably more have more of a thought about that than just somebody watching me learn to ride it.

Tom Butler: 29:42

I am really curious at what percentage of people will look at that and go, oh, that's a recumbent, or I don't think many people will go, oh, that's a cruise bike. I don't think there's that many people that are aware of cruise bikes. They'll just go, oh, that's a cruise bike. I'm used to seeing that. I think there will be. You will get some attention based on the bike you're riding. I think that we have access to a street in our neighborhood so you won't be out in public you know, in big public and it's actually not that traveled of a street, and so I think that's going to make a little bit easier. You won't have to worry about cars so much and it's a nice gentle slope.

Kelly Butler: 30:21

Yeah.

Tom Butler: 30:21

I think that will be helpful. Do you want to make a prediction about how long before you feel comfortable? How many miles is it going to take you before you feel comfortable riding the bike? No way, I think you should make that prediction. No, way.

Kelly Butler: 30:37

You know I hate that kind of thing.

Tom Butler: 30:38

You've watched some stuff online, mm-hmm, you know, you've kind of seen the process for other people. Yeah, I know you do. You're like no, you don't make statements without totally having the data to back up your statement. I'm asking you to put a number on how many miles.

Kelly Butler: 30:57

Miles or hours. It would be easier to do hours, I don't know, honey.

Tom Butler: 31:02

Okay, let's do it this way. What 100 miles do you think? Do you think it'll take you the full 100 miles? No how about 50 miles? Do you think it's? I think I'll learn it in 50 miles okay, do you want to go to 25 miles? No okay, so somewhere below 50.

Kelly Butler: 31:24

Maybe I'm hoping, I'm hoping.

Tom Butler: 31:27

Okay so.

Kelly Butler: 31:27

I'm not going to predict, I'm hoping.

Tom Butler: 31:28

You're not going to predict. No, I won't force you to make a prediction, but you are hoping for 50 miles. Now here's a question. I'm going to be asking McKckenna and garen and also jesse since you'll be riding with jesse to weigh in on this new bike for you, okay, do you think it's possible that you'll get frustrated and give up before you learn to ride it?

Kelly Butler: 31:57

no, I don't think so. I think it's possible that if my neck just feels stupid or it's uncomfortable or I can't, I just can't get used to how it, how my body feels, if there's, if there's a just doesn't jive with my body, then I'd say no, but I don't think I will give up in frustration.

Tom Butler: 32:17

I don't think it's the same thing. Like you know, when you say your neck feels stupid, I think a better way to say that is that if you, if you have neck pain, right if your neck's uncomfortable or if the head bounces, like you there.

Kelly Butler: 32:30

I'm not used to having a head rest. There's a head rest. So if my head is bouncing on, the head rest a bunch and it's obnoxious. I don't think that you know stuff like that, maybe, but I don't think I'm going to give up because I can't balance the bike. I can't ride the bike. I don't think I'm going to give up because I can't balance the bike.

Tom Butler: 32:49

I can't ride the bike. I don't think that's going to be my limiting factor. I have experienced you as somebody that enjoys a challenge. Yeah, you're, you don't really get frustrated. In fact, I have experienced you laughing, like when you're trying to do something new and you're feeling you're laughing. I think that you kind of enjoy the whole process and laugh at yourself a little bit. You're able to laugh at yourself a little bit if you're struggling and things like that. So I expect you getting frustrated and quitting to be a zero chance. Okay, a few more predictions.

Tom Butler: 33:20

Oh no, you're so happy with predicting.

Kelly Butler: 33:23

I love predictions.

Tom Butler: 33:25

How long do you think before you'll ride 25 miles? Go for a 25-mile ride.

Kelly Butler: 33:31

How long?

Tom Butler: 33:32

How long do you think it will take before you're comfortable going for a 25-mile ride? I'm taking for granted that it's comfortable.

Kelly Butler: 33:39

Uh-huh, no more than three weeks.

Tom Butler: 33:41

Okay, okay.

Kelly Butler: 33:46

If we get out and ride it. You know enough.

Tom Butler: 33:47

Yeah, so it will have to be putting some time in, yeah.

Kelly Butler: 33:52

How about 50 miles? I don't know, that's hard, I don't know.

Tom Butler: 33:57

Do you not picture yourself riding 50 miles?

Kelly Butler: 34:00

I do.

Tom Butler: 34:01

Okay, I picture that for sure. Okay, how about 100 miles? You imagine yourself riding 100 miles. I do, okay, I picture that for sure. Okay, how about a hundred miles? You imagine yourself riding a hundred miles.

Kelly Butler: 34:09

I do, I would certainly, I mean obviously within a year for sure, but I don't know.

Tom Butler: 34:16

A hundred miles means spending a significant amount of time on the bike. Right time on the bike right in a in a day, yeah, but you're open to that for sure. So at this point, do you want to set the goal of doing the stp at some point?

Kelly Butler: 34:32

yeah, I plan on doing the stp at some point.

Tom Butler: 34:34

Nice, that's awesome to hear. Not this year, probably no, but this year you turn 59. The following year you'll be 60. Yeah, you'll follow in my footsteps. Oh, of doing the STP at 60 years old. Hey, that's kind of fun, isn't it? Yeah, in your imagination, what do you think is the biggest risk for you? Being able to keep riding? What do you think would knock you out from being able to keep riding?

Kelly Butler: 35:05

If I don't love it.

Tom Butler: 35:07

Yeah, there is a possibility that you're like going this is the most boring thing I could possibly be doing with my time. There is that possibility, there's that possibility yes.

Tom Butler: 35:18

But I think if we're doing a lot of stuff as a family, then that changes it dramatically. Doing a lot of stuff as a family, then that changes it dramatically. Also, I think if we go like, if we go on a 50 mile ride and we're just going for 50 miles, I think that's very different from going like 25 miles. Stop in some place, maybe grabbing something to eat, visiting, having people with us that we're visiting, and then turning around and doing another 25 miles. I think that makes a big difference. We're going to learn a lot about that, which is awesome. You talked about this a little bit, but how do you envision handling it if we're on a ride like we're going to be going on a group ride in May? I'm just saying that we're going on a group ride in May People are probably going to notice your bike and you on the bike. How do you conceptualize getting that kind of attention?

Kelly Butler: 36:08

Well, I might not be very proficient at riding it when we do this ride in May, so I'll probably be more self-conscious about that maybe. Like I don't know what I'm doing, but here I am riding this bike. Actually, I anticipate having more conversations with people than I would you know otherwise. So I get to meet people, and so that part of it is kind of intriguing to me. I do think it looks like you're a bit disabled, I mean. I think there's just, you know, like what's wrong with that? You can't ride a normal bike, you have to ride that bike. What's wrong with you? There's a little bit of hesitation in that, but at the same time it's certainly not a huge deal and you can just turn it into. In my mind, I think it's just going to be. You know, I've never been a normal person anyway, so it's just more of the same.

Tom Butler: 37:01

So you'll have fun with it, I'll have fun with it. I'll have fun with it, I think for sure. Yeah, I do think it's interesting. I think being on a bike trail people who aren't cyclists would look at it differently than being with a group from cascade bicycle club. Now, the emerald city ride that we're going to do. I think that more maybe novice cyclists will do the emerald city ride, so it might be a little bit different dynamic. But I think on most cascade rides people are totally used to recumbents. They might be intrigued by the cruise bike as recumbent, but I don't think there's so much like why is she on that with that group of people? Yeah, I'd be surprised to see that There'd be more intrigue about you chose to do a recumbent how you liken it.

Kelly Butler: 37:48

Yeah, kind of thing.

Tom Butler: 37:50

We wear cycling jerseys and I wear a cycling jersey because it's got pockets in the back. But I wear bicycling shorts and I wear a jersey because it's the most functional thing to wear and the pockets on the jersey are really functional. But you are going to be laying on your back so you don't need pockets and you're not sitting on a bike saddle, so having padded shorts is not going to be that big of a deal.

Kelly Butler: 38:23

Oh, that's nice, I don't have to wear padded shorts. Is not going to be that big of a deal. Oh, that's nice, I don't have to wear padded shorts.

Tom Butler: 38:27

What do you imagine doing as far as what you're going to wear?

Kelly Butler: 38:31

Well, I still imagine wearing cycling shorts, just maybe not padded ones. I mean, you still have the issue of being able to ride cleanly without you know having your clothing get in the way. So I don't think I'll look much different from you, honestly.

Tom Butler: 38:44

So you're not concerned about that at all? No, I mean, you can wear a cycling jersey, you just can't use the pockets. Here's a question that I'm asking others how cold will be too cold for you to ride?

Kelly Butler: 38:58

Okay, well, that's my biggest question about riding. Living in Washington is having to buy all the equipment to ride in rainy, cold weather, so that all depends on the equipment that I have decided to purchase. I'll just pull out a number and say 40 degrees.

Tom Butler: 39:16

Okay, that's a good number. You did a lot of skiing as you were growing up. I don't know a lot is the right way to say, but you, you didn't shy away from cold when you were downhill skiing.

Kelly Butler: 39:26

No.

Tom Butler: 39:27

So you, you're not one that really shies away from that, has shied away from cold in the past.

Kelly Butler: 39:32

No, I just have a imagine it being more difficult to layer and manage those layers. You know, as you're riding, because you're putting out a lot of energy and so you're going to start out cold. You're going to have to be comfortable. It seems like starting out cold or stopping and peeling off layers. That's actually a big question of mine is how is that going to work? How do you manage the changes? But that's not specific to recumbents.

Tom Butler: 39:54

I mean that has been a question of you about riding with me in the past. Yes, so I anticipate there being times where I go out on the bike that you don't go If it's really rainy. So I anticipate there being times where I go out on the bike that you don't go For sure If it's really rainy and cold.

Kelly Butler: 40:07

Yeah, I'm not going on every training ride you have, babe, sorry.

Tom Butler: 40:11

But who knows, you might find the yacht with the clothes that I have on not a problem and that's a possibility too.

Kelly Butler: 40:18

I think I'm always going to want something with me that I can take layers off yeah, more than you do.

Tom Butler: 40:23

I think that's a fair assumption. We are planning to put pedal assist on your bike, so put a motor on your bike, a hub motor, which I think is kind of fun. I'm just really curious about the fact you will be driving the front wheel with your pedaling and then you'll have a hub motor that drives the rear wheel. So, in effect, you have all wheel drive. You have two wheel drives, you have all wheel drive. I'm just really curious about what difference that would make with the bike, how that feels.

Kelly Butler: 40:54

Yeah, I have conflicted emotions about the motor actually, but I know that I'm going to get one at some point, not after the hundred miles and not before the hundred miles, but likely after the 100 miles.

Tom Butler: 41:04

When you think about the conflict that you feel in your mind over the pedal assist. What's that stem from?

Kelly Butler: 41:11

It stems from people thinking I'm just being a wuss.

Tom Butler: 41:13

Yeah.

Kelly Butler: 41:14

Just yeah, because I intend this for exercise, but I don't think and you don't think, that I can keep up with you, that I'd be able to keep up with you, and I think that's a reality. So I think, in order for it to work well, I'm going to need pedal assist, but that kind of bugs me too.

Tom Butler: 41:31

I don't think it's reasonable to think that you can climb with us on hills. So I think, going up any specific hill, I think it's going to be good for you to have the pedal assist. And I think going up several hills, if we're doing 33 miles and 2000 feet of elevation gain, I think it's reasonable that you have the pedal assist. We can take that off at any point.

Kelly Butler: 41:58

Yeah, I probably won't.

Tom Butler: 41:59

But there is that option, yeah, but there is this thing about you knowing in your mind. I know that you're going to push it, and what I think is interesting is some of the data that shows that people that have pedal assist are still going at 80% of what they would be going if they were on a bike without pedal assist. People across the board are expending energy, are getting fit, are challenging themselves even though they have pedal assist, and I definitely think you'll be one of those people. I think you'll use it when you feel like you need to use it.

Kelly Butler: 42:33

Yeah, that's what I've done in the past, but on the Rad Bike. The Rad Bike was so heavy that using the first level of assist felt like you're just like back on a normal bike. So it'll be interesting to see what levels of assist are available in the motor we get.

Tom Butler: 42:50

The system that we'll put on this bike is much more sophisticated than what you're used to, so it will be interesting to see how that changes things. How fast are you prepared to go downhill?

Kelly Butler: 43:01

I have no idea how fast have I gone so far. What's the fastest? I've gone downhill with you on the rad bike.

Tom Butler: 43:08

I think around 24 miles an hour, maybe 25 miles an hour for a short period of time. When we go downhill I usually get out quite a ways in front of you.

Kelly Butler: 43:17

Well, yeah, especially on the rad bike, because I had to pedal hard to keep up with you going downhill. I had to really work going downhill to even keep up with you. Did you break ever with the rad bike going downhill? Probably at some point, but not usually because I was having to work. I wasn't flying downhill. The rad bike didn't work that way. It was heavy. So I had to actually pedal a lot going downhill.

Tom Butler: 43:43

Do you think 30 miles an hour sounds pretty fast on a bike? Yeah, how about 40 miles an hour on a bike?

Kelly Butler: 43:51

Well, it's a good question. I've just never been on a bike and gone really fast. On a jet ski I'll take 70 miles an hour, but I don't know about a bike.

Tom Butler: 44:00

Right, it'll be interesting to see how that advances over time. I mean, obviously there's going to be a period in the beginning where you're getting used to handling the bike that you're not going to want to descend very quickly, right. Yeah, but it will be interesting how that goes, okay, two more questions. Okay, about us going out as a family. There's also other families like the Fergusons. What do you think about having access to something active we can do with other families like the Fergusons?

Kelly Butler: 44:32

I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's great.

Tom Butler: 44:35

I think that there's an element of trying to find people in our community that wanna go do stuff and do active stuff with people I'm pretty excited about that I'm very excited about that actually. Yeah, Okay, the final question who's putting the bike together?

Kelly Butler: 44:53

I think we both are going to end up doing that together. I'm going to want to do it, but you have more experience with bikes, so you'll have more innate knowledge about bikes, so I will lean on your knowledge and experience don't know that my experience is going to be a big deal with it.

Tom Butler: 45:08

We do a lot of things together. We do, you know, house projects and everything together, and there's some things that you're definitely better than I am and vice versa more vice than versa, but I also think that they have to make this a pretty easy process to get the bike put together, though and it's not, you know, you don't adjust it the same way for fit, the way you would, you know, do a traditional bike right, um, but it's uh. Yeah, I think it's gonna be fun it will be fun yeah.

Tom Butler: 45:44

And I'm already anxious to go online and see okay, what are they planning on?

Kelly Butler: 45:51

getting here, me too.

Tom Butler: 45:53

Again, thank you for having this discussion and I really want to say thank you for just like supporting me so much all the time with this whole bicycling deal. I really appreciate it.

Kelly Butler: 46:04

Well, I'm glad you're doing it, so I'm happy to.

Tom Butler: 46:07

All right, that's it for now.

Kelly Butler: 46:09

All right, off we go.

Tom Butler: 46:18

Off we go. I wanted to call and talk to you about the fact that Kelly is getting a bike, so I'm excited about that.

Jesse Ferguson: 46:28

Yeah, you've talked about it before.

Tom Butler: 46:30

Yeah, so I wanted to. I'm talking to you and then I'm also talking to Garen and McKenna. Kelly has not been riding with us, and so I'm just interested in what you think about her getting a bike and asking some questions that I've asked her, kind of seeing how you guys can predict her responses to the questions that I'm asking. So this is a kind of kelly's going to be riding with us and what do you guys think of that kind of thing.

Jesse Ferguson: 47:08

Okay, I'm ready.

Tom Butler: 47:09

So the first thing is, I'd like you to pull up a picture of her bike.

Jesse Ferguson: 47:18

I don't think you've seen a picture of the bike that she's looking at getting. That's true. I said crew because I saw a link that you sent, that's cruisebikecom.

Tom Butler: 47:26

Very nice wordplay.

Jesse Ferguson: 47:29

It was an accident.

Tom Butler: 47:35

Is this a recumbent bike? Then Correct, it's a recumbent bike, it's called an S4.

Jesse Ferguson: 47:37

Okay, I'm looking at the cruise bike S4. It's blue with like an orange logo thing on the side.

Tom Butler: 47:41

Yes, one of the things unique about it is that the it that the front wheel drive. Yeah, so it's front wheel drive. The first question is looking at it. What do you think?

Jesse Ferguson: 47:52

It's a really cool design, but I immediately think of, like, if she's going to be using this on the road, part of that, like I don't know, just I'm imagining that she wants to do the STP. I like I don't know, just I'm imagining that she wants to do the STP. I don't know if she does, but if she was going to join us in July, if you're trying to draft behind somebody, she doesn't have a lot of time to react to like a pothole or something that everybody's trying to like swerve around and can't see because they're looking at the lumbar area of the person in front of them. You know what I mean? Yeah, so there's that also.

Tom Butler: 48:26

she looks like she'd be pretty low, so that's an advantage, I guess yeah, I think that aerodynamic yeah, I think that drafting for her on that bike would be much less of an issue. And then also I don't know that her field of vision is a lot higher. I think she she's looking at the road, so I think she would be able to look at the rider in front of her and the road in front of her to react. What might you guess that she would answer to a question about if she is nervous getting a new bike?

Jesse Ferguson: 49:02

I'd say definitely, because she's tried biking before in one form or another, like the e-bike that she has. I don't see her on it very often, you know, and so to me I think that she'd be like well, here goes an experiment. You know she's a little bit of a risk taker. You know she's willing to do experiments for her health and for the betterment of relationships, so maybe that wouldn't be as much of an issue for her, but I think she hopes that it works out. And it's. It's a little bit of a um, it's kind of heavy if it. If it doesn't work out because of you know just how expensive this bike is.

Tom Butler: 49:43

One interesting thing is that there's a 100-mile test drive, so if you put 100 miles on it and you don't like it, then they pay for you to ship it back.

Jesse Ferguson: 49:54

So you have to get used to it and you can't jump on it and hate it and want to get rid of it. They're actually making you give it a shot, so that's really cool of them to do that. Do you know how long they expect it to take for somebody to have that switch thrown in their brain? So they're enjoying this bike? Is that why they say 100 miles? 100 miles is falling.

Tom Butler: 50:19

I think they're betting that most people fall within 100 miles. And again, I think that's one of the interesting things is that I I think that maybe people they're not seeing it, they're not seeing it, they're not seeing it, they're going like this isn't, this isn't going to work for me, but then there's a switch that gets thrown. The brain goes okay, I got what you're trying to do, and it just happens did you find this bike, or did kelly?

Tom Butler: 50:42

I saw a cruise bike on one of the bike rides. I think it was actually not one what I was doing, I think it was the RSVP. I saw one. I'm like that's a really neat recumbent and I was thinking of somebody else, a friend of ours, that had been talking about maybe getting a recumbent.

Tom Butler: 51:00

On February 16th I interviewed the CEO, actually the founders. One of them is the CEO of Cruise Bike, a married couple, and as I was listening to them, kelly started coming to my mind. So that's how I ended up looking at Cruise Bike and I do think, as far as recumbents go, I think it's the best recumbent out there. So this is where you could make a prediction. You know this isn't an easy prediction to make, but do you think Kelly will get the hang of this?

Jesse Ferguson: 51:33

Yes, I do.

Tom Butler: 51:34

How long do you think it'll take?

Jesse Ferguson: 51:36

I think that she will. I think I need a more specific parameter about get the hang of it. I'm going to go off of what I instinctively feel. That means I specific parameter about get the hang of it. I'm going to go off of what I instinctively feel. That means I think that in the first day of her owning the bike, if she goes out and really tries it, that she'll be able to ride it all the way down the block and turn around and come back, and that qualifies to me as getting the hang of it. She can actually ride it now. I also think that within the first 20 miles she'll have a fall, she'll go down at some point, and that it won't be very fun for anybody. I don't think it'll be a bad crash. But then, you know, by the time she gets to 100 miles I think she'll be pretty and actually I think probably within the first 50 miles she'll be handling it relatively expertly be handling it relatively expertly.

Tom Butler: 52:24

Do you think that she will ride 100 miles in one ride at some point?

Jesse Ferguson: 52:30

In one ride. She really wasn't happy about you doing the STP when it was first brought up, though. A lot of people who aren't cyclists think that 200 miles is really really really far for a bike. Once you get used to centuries and things like that, it loses its scariness. It doesn't sound like a big thing anymore. I think she will. I think that she'll enjoy it. She likes nature enough, she likes you enough. I think she'll go out and actually hit it. I think she won't think that she will do 100 miles. It'll be like she's enjoying it and doing it a lot, and then an opportunity will arise for some longer ride and she won't have put in the time and she'll be able to do it. Obviously, I don't know. Maybe the reason she's getting this is because she is already planning on doing the STp, but I don't know that. I haven't talked to her about it so you saw the bike.

Tom Butler: 53:31

One thing that we didn't talk about is what color do you think she will choose?

Jesse Ferguson: 53:36

I'm seeing the color options here on the website. I don't know when. I'm around her every once in a while and she doesn't really wear a lot of bright colors, so I think she'll pick blue, but I'll let you know. If it was me, I would pick orange.

Tom Butler: 53:53

Okay.

Jesse Ferguson: 53:54

But I think she'll pick blue. Okay, if she picks orange, I promise you that I will jump off the ground in celebration.

Tom Butler: 54:06

Well, that's good incentive. I better not tell her that until she's already chosen. Here's an interesting thing You're on your back, so pockets on a cycling jersey don't do any good. You're not on a seat, so padded bike shorts aren't really a part of it. The question is, will she wear those things to fit in, or will she wear something else?

Jesse Ferguson: 54:33

I think she'll probably wear a prom dress. No, I'm just kidding. Really good ventilation. It keeps you cool. It's tangled in the chain. I mean, she goes to the gym and she's a regular Gym rat person, you know so, and I think that she has exercise clothes. I think she'll just wear exercise clothes. You know spandex, that kind of exercise clothes. I think she'll just wear exercise clothes. You know spandex, that kind of stuff. I don't think she'll probably wear padded shorts if you don't need to. I mean, no cyclist is really a fan of the padded shorts, except while they're on the bike. So that's what I think.

Jesse Ferguson: 55:18

I probably wear some kind of jersey, because jerseys make a lot of sense on bikes. They're comfortable and a lot of my jerseys don't have pockets on the back. There's plenty of them.

Tom Butler: 55:31

People react to seeing cruise bikes. How do you think Kelly will feel by getting people reacting to her on the cruise bike?

Jesse Ferguson: 55:39

um, kelly is not the kind of person that likes to run up onto the stage and give announcements and chit chat with like an audience and stuff, so I don't think that there will be any motivation for her to get attention. But I also know that she's pretty friendly and so so I think that she'll be happy to talk about the bike and the experience of riding the bike and why she got it and those kind of questions. But when the conversation is closing down, I don't think she'll like. And and one more thing you know there's people who advertise their opinions a lot, and Kelly has a good self-control when it comes to. She wants to share things that are helpful to people, but she doesn't want to force it on people when they don't want to hear it, and so I think she'll have good social intelligence. Let the conversation end.

Tom Butler: 56:35

So I think she'll have good social intelligence. Let the conversation end. I like it. Okay, three more questions.

Jesse Ferguson: 56:41

How cold will be too cold for her to ride. You know it's hard enough to ride in the rain when you're in an upright position and it's falling on your head and shoulders and maybe on your knees and splashing your feet. In this position you're getting like from toe to the top of your forehead it's got like full rain exposure, and so I think that that might be less comfortable unless you get some pretty good rain gear. When it comes to inclement weather, I don't think that she'll. I don't know if she's not a. Yeah, if she goes to the gym instead of going on jogs outside, she seems kind of tough. I don't think she'll go out when there's ice on the ground. I think that she will avoid rain for the most part, unless it's like some really important ride. And I'll set my temperature since that was the original question, I forgot about it I'll set my minimum temperature at 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

Tom Butler: 57:42

Well done. How fast downhill do you think she would say she's prepared to go?

Jesse Ferguson: 57:53

Faster than everybody else. The way that she drives, she takes corners quickly and she I don't know if she actually breaks the speed limit, but she doesn't really use the brakes very much. So I think that she loves speed and the feeling of being of going fast, and so I think that she'll be the same on the bike. You know, she'll try to resist using brakes and she'll just be accelerating the whole way down long hills do you have a miles per hour that you want to attach to it?

Jesse Ferguson: 58:27

oh, okay, miles per hour. Um, she probably has to have gone like three or four hundred miles before she's willing to just really coast down a long hill. I think she's probably willing to go up to 40 miles an hour.

Tom Butler: 58:41

Okay.

Jesse Ferguson: 58:42

Yeah, also, the speed that she's willing to go and the minimum temperature that she's willing to go are going to be the same for me. I like it.

Tom Butler: 58:53

And then the final, very important question are the Fergusons prepared for a cycling adventure with the butlers?

Jesse Ferguson: 59:01

I am. I have a dream that Brenda will pick up cycling more than she has. She enjoys it a lot when we do go, but she's not equipped for it yet, like with cycling shorts and all that kind of stuff. If you mean by an adventure, you know 20 miles, yeah, I think that we would give that a shot.

Tom Butler: 59:20

And I'm thinking about the kids too, so I'm not thinking about going a long way.

Jesse Ferguson: 59:25

Okay, well, the kids do 8 miles pretty well but it's slow because they stop and look at bunnies and stuff like that. Get off the bike and try to get them. It would definitely be an adventure with the kids.

Tom Butler: 59:40

Well, I'm certainly down for that.

Jesse Ferguson: 59:41

Okay Then yes, we would love to go on a bike ride with you guys and call it an adventure.

Tom Butler: 59:48

But I kind of imagine if Brenda sees Kelly riding this and is like hey that's pretty good. I kind of imagine you possibly figuring out how to convert a bike into a recumbent bike oh yeah, I'm a fan of bike mods.

Jesse Ferguson: 1:00:03

Like I used to ride a bike that was one frame welded on top of another frame with a like a child's bicycle wheel on the front and a 29 inch wheel on the back and, uh, extended handlebars and everything. We still ride that around. I would be happy to make something like this for somebody.

Tom Butler: 1:00:25

So we'll have to see how that goes. We'll have to see what Brenda thinks about it. All right, well, we'll see how you did. I'll be talking to Kelly soon and and we'll we'll see how you did. I'll be talking to Kelly soon and we'll see. It'll also be interesting to see how your answers compare to McKenna and Guerin's answers.

Jesse Ferguson: 1:00:44

Yeah, I'm kind of curious actually, and I'm looking forward to all my prizes for getting them right. Well, I will have to All my satisfaction of knowing Kelly, that's right. You don't have to give me satisfaction of knowing Kelly, that's right. You don't have to give me any prizes.

Tom Butler: 1:00:59

Alright, alright, man, is that it? Yep, that's it. Talk to you later.

Jesse Ferguson: 1:01:03

Bye, bye.

Tom Butler: 1:01:12

Okay, garen and McKenna, thank you for joining me.

Garren Miler: 1:01:16

Thanks for having us.

Tom Butler: 1:01:17

This is a fairly epic day because we ordered your mom a new bike. Yeah, so we are ready to go on bike trips as a family. I want you to come on and it's kind of like how well do you know your mom and your mother-in-law? How she answered some of these questions, so I'm intrigued to see if you guys are in line with her thinking about this whole thing.

McKenna Miler: 1:01:43

I feel ready for this.

Tom Butler: 1:01:45

Nice. The first and most important question is what color did she choose?

Garren Miler: 1:01:51

Of the three colors that are listed here, correct?

Tom Butler: 1:01:55

Independently from each other. Which color do you think she chose?

McKenna Miler: 1:01:59

Well, I know what color she chose.

Tom Butler: 1:02:02

Are you ready with your answer, Karen?

McKenna Miler: 1:02:04

Yes, I think she chose the blue one.

Garren Miler: 1:02:06

I'm going to go on a limb here. I think she chose the green one.

Tom Butler: 1:02:10

She chose the green one.

McKenna Miler: 1:02:14

Oh man.

Garren Miler: 1:02:16

I figured it was kind of like a more spunky color and I think that appealed to her the blue with the orange logo.

Tom Butler: 1:02:24

She didn't like at all. She felt like the orange one might be too bright. She wanted something a little more earthy. So she chose the green one and she felt like maybe she has. She doesn't have any green in her life, but maybe that green will correspond to a calmness riding the bike the truth is she didn't like any of the colors, so it was making a choice between three court choices that she wasn't that crazy about.

McKenna Miler: 1:03:01

Right, there is no purple option. I was hoping there was a purple option. Would, have made this too.

Tom Butler: 1:03:08

Now at some point we might have to go out and get a custom paint job of her bike. The bike takes a little bit to get used to. There is a process of figuring out a different way of steering your pedaling. But as you're pedaling, you're also steering with what you're pedaling with. So there is some transfer of biking skills, but you still have to learn it. They ask you to ride 100 miles. If you don't like it after 100 miles, then you ship it back. So I am anxiously waiting to see some tracking information. They said that it ships the next day, so I'm pretty excited. So she should be able to get on it pretty soon. So she should be able to get on it pretty soon. The question is they're saying 100 miles and you have to return it. How many miles will it take for her to get it? This one, you're guessing what you think.

McKenna Miler: 1:04:08

What level of get it Like? Be able to ride steadily, be able to balance on it, be able to stop and go.

Tom Butler: 1:04:19

Set a land speed record, I would say how long before she's comfortable going on a significant ride.

McKenna Miler: 1:04:25

In miles.

Garren Miler: 1:04:26

In miles, so I think it's going to take her the full 100 miles, and the reason that I say that is because I think that with a bike like this being such a niche piece of equipment, we really want it to be perfect, and I feel like the bar for what constitutes mastery is a lot higher for this kind of thing.

Tom Butler: 1:04:47

Nice thought process.

McKenna Miler: 1:04:49

My thought process is that I've seen my mom pick up things almost instantaneously that she's never touched before, so I'm going to go with 30 miles. It took me 40 miles to feel comfortable clipped in. I think it's going to be easier for her than it was for me transferring from a bike to a cruise bike, than it was for me to learn how to be clipped in.

Tom Butler: 1:05:11

Her answer was really tough to get out of her. She does not like making predictions where she has to just kind of come up with a number out of the blue. So what I got her to was less than 50 miles. She's expecting it to be less than 50 miles.

McKenna Miler: 1:05:37

Okay.

Tom Butler: 1:05:38

I think I'm on board with you, mckenna. We have seen her pick up on things pretty quickly, so I would be surprised even if it took her 50 miles.

Garren Miler: 1:05:47

Speaking of clips, is there any plan to have clips on this bike at any point?

Tom Butler: 1:05:52

Yes, there is. I have a theory that if you are just pushing on the pedals, you're disrupting your steering more than if you're cycling in a circular manner. So I think, actually, I think clips are actually a valuable thing for this and, again, I think it won't be long before she'll be wearing clips. I think we'll probably go with something like your pedal where it is, you clip in half of it and you can use it clipless. Also Right, will she be open to riding 50 miles?

McKenna Miler: 1:06:29

In one go.

Tom Butler: 1:06:30

In one go.

McKenna Miler: 1:06:32

First time or just at any point.

Tom Butler: 1:06:35

At some point, first time, or just at any point? At some point is she going to be open to doing 50 miles?

McKenna Miler: 1:06:40

That's really hard to say.

Garren Miler: 1:06:41

I think so. I think there's a community element that we offer you know in the Cycling Over 60 community it's something she's going to want to be a part of. I think that riding 50 miles is part of being in that community. I think that that's miles is part of being in that community. I think that that's certainly something she'll pursue.

McKenna Miler: 1:06:58

I think that there is an important distinction of comfort for her. I know she has really struggled with shoulder and neck issues. If this is which is what we're looking for, if this is truly a bike that allows her to ride pain-free, then yes, absolutely. I think she'll be interested in 50 miles. But if a certain amount of straining triggers her shoulders or neck and she just can't get away from it, I don't think that she'll be open to it. So I'm having a hard time saying yes or no, because I don't feel like I have information to really tell me that.

Tom Butler: 1:07:37

I think that's the right answer. I, when I was asking her this question, it was taking for granted that the bike's comfortable. Are you going to be open to it? Then I would say yeah and she said yes, I don't think there's a question at 50 miles. I do think that you know, going out together and going out 25 miles, maybe stopping and visiting, maybe grabbing something to eat or something, and then doing another 24 miles, I think there's no question and I think she's looking to do that in a couple months, even.

McKenna Miler: 1:08:12

For sure.

Tom Butler: 1:08:13

So we are scheduled to do the 20 mile Emererald city ride. I think she'll have a month on the bike before we do that, so for sure, 25 miles definitely open to 50 miles. Okay, do you think she will be open to doing 100 miles, taking for granted that the bike is comfortable?

McKenna Miler: 1:08:35

Open to it. Yes.

Tom Butler: 1:08:37

When asking her are you planning on doing 100 miles? What did she say?

Garren Miler: 1:08:43

I think that she said no.

McKenna Miler: 1:08:44

I think she said no as well.

Garren Miler: 1:08:46

Because if you give a mouse a cookie, she said yes.

McKenna Miler: 1:08:51

Oh Wow, that's exciting.

Tom Butler: 1:08:54

Yes.

McKenna Miler: 1:08:55

That feels like she's saying she might do STP with us.

Tom Butler: 1:09:00

Posing the question to her are you planning on doing STP? Are you saying that she would say yes to that?

Garren Miler: 1:09:07

All STP is is two 100 mile rides. So if you're down to do 100 miles, then you're doing STP.

McKenna Miler: 1:09:15

I feel like if she's saying yes to 100 miles, she's saying yes to STP.

Tom Butler: 1:09:19

Well, back-to-back 100 miles is different than 100 miles. She saw us back-to-back 100 miles, so it is a little bit different. But, that being said, she did say yes.

Garren Miler: 1:09:32

Is she talking about this summer or next year?

Tom Butler: 1:09:34

Not this summer. Is she talking about this? Summer or next year, not this summer, but she would follow in my footsteps and do the STP when she's 60.

McKenna Miler: 1:09:44

Cute.

Tom Butler: 1:09:45

Which I think is really fun. That's amazing. I asked the question what do you imagine feeling? Having people react to you on the recumbent, so being someplace and having people you on the recumbent, so being someplace and having people notice you on recumbent. How do you think she answered that question?

McKenna Miler: 1:10:02

I don't think that phases her in any capacity I think she's expecting to be noticed, but I I also don't think that she's concerned about it. I don't think that's going to deter her at all. I think she's going to love that. People are like oh, what's that?

Tom Butler: 1:10:17

You both answered that, I think, perfectly. The truth is that she sees that she will have more interactions with people. She also thinks that people look at her and say why are you having to ride that? What kind of disability do you have that you have to ride that bike? Yeah, so I don't know that that's going to be an issue on cascade rides.

Garren Miler: 1:10:41

I think people are used to recumbents on cascade rides yeah, and I I certainly you know doing stp and rsvp last year, both of those rides. There's at least a half dozen recumbents um on each ride I saw. I mean it's not very uncommon at all.

Tom Butler: 1:10:57

Yeah, rsvp, I think, is where I first saw a cruise bike and that led me to want to do an interview with them and that interview was really crucial to your mom being interested in it.

Garren Miler: 1:11:12

So where do we stand then with electrification of the cruise bike?

Tom Butler: 1:11:18

We are putting a motor on it. You know she's going to have to get to the point where she's like okay, I know I'm not sending this bike back, so she might not have it a motor on it by the time we get to emerald city. Right, I actually believe that she will feel comfortable enough before then. I'm gonna want to do a lot of miles and I think she's gonna feel comfortable enough by then that we have a good chance, if we can get it into the bike shop on time, that we'll get the motor put on before the emerald city ride for sure I like.

McKenna Miler: 1:11:54

She's going to be comfortable in a weekend if you can get out enough.

Tom Butler: 1:11:58

I said that we wear cycling jerseys and bike shorts. She doesn't have any reason to wear padded bike shorts and she can't really access pockets. She can't really put stuff in pockets of a cycling jersey. So when I asked her if she was going gonna wear a jersey and bike shorts, what did she say?

McKenna Miler: 1:12:19

I think she said no, unless it's a cycling over 60 jersey I agree with that she said that she would definitely wear bike short, like shorts.

Tom Butler: 1:12:31

She would definitely wear, you know, lycra shorts and she will ride a cycling jersey she feels like. So what if there's pockets in it? She'll still wear a cycling jersey.

Garren Miler: 1:12:44

How cold will be too cold for her I would say, considering how much less restrictive a recumbent is on what you can wear, there's no reason she couldn't put on her parka and ride this thing, you know. So I don't. I don't see any reason why she couldn't, uh, get down to some pretty low temperatures. I bet she could ride in the in the, you know, mid 40s I was gonna say nothing colder than 40 degrees.

McKenna Miler: 1:13:08

So very similar to what you're saying there you go.

Tom Butler: 1:13:11

So you and Jesse have both said 40. And that's what your mom said too.

Jesse Ferguson: 1:13:19

Okay, nice.

Tom Butler: 1:13:23

So everybody's in agreement with that. But I think that that I mean rainy and 40, I think is going to require her having something to wear and particularly on her feet, having something to wear and particularly on her feet. So I think that that you know that's going to be something that is is going to have to be prepared for. When I asked her how she felt about people seeing her with the motor, with pedal assist, how did she respond to that?

McKenna Miler: 1:13:51

same way as the recumbent. I feel like which is I feel like she's gonna welcome the interaction okay about her being out there and how this makes it so that she can be with her family I don't think she has any discomfort in being herself and in accommodating herself.

Garren Miler: 1:14:09

You know, I think that she goes out there and she does exactly what she wants to do, and it doesn't really matter what other people think about that. And if she wants to ride an e recumbent, and that's what she's going to do, I think that that's 99 of how she is.

Tom Butler: 1:14:25

That's what we experience her as when she thinks about it. There is an aspect where she doesn't want people think she's wimping out. She does not want to be labeled a wimp and I think there is a part of her that she would like to do rides without it, that she would like to not have it on there and have the challenge of not having it on there. So I think it's going to be really interesting. I think that she's going to appreciate it. If we do any gravel stuff, then I think that it's going to be really interesting having two-wheel drive to do climbing on gravel. It will be very interesting to check in with her after the Emerald City ride, her after the Emerald City ride, if we have the motor on it afterwards. How does she feel about having the motor? I think that will be interesting to hear her talk about that. Final question how fast is she prepared to go downhill?

Garren Miler: 1:15:35

As fast as she possibly can.

McKenna Miler: 1:15:39

I can totally see her wanting to get drafting with you and she's just gonna have to like hold herself. You know, back from that I she might slingshot off of you. Honestly, I don't know if that's something you can do on a recumbent, but as fast as you can go you guys and jesse are on the same page.

Tom Butler: 1:16:02

Jesse specifically talked about her driving as evidence that she likes going fast, but the truth of matters is she does not know. She has never experienced going downhill. Now she will not really get the same advantage from drafting that you know that an upright cyclist gets because she's in an aerodynamic position.

Tom Butler: 1:16:29

I don't know what happens. You know the weight of the bike is going to be more because the motor is on it, but it's not going to be as much as if I was on the bike. You know her weight plus the weight of the motor is still lighter than if I was on the bike.

McKenna Miler: 1:16:46

Really.

Tom Butler: 1:16:47

Yeah, and so it will be interesting to see how fast she can coast.

McKenna Miler: 1:16:53

Yeah, I'm going to have to be keeping up with all three of you.

Tom Butler: 1:17:00

I think there will definitely be some time for her to get really comfortable descending on that bike before she lets loose.

McKenna Miler: 1:17:09

I've experienced being on the back of a jet ski with her and I recognize that concrete and water is very different, but there is a certain level of excitement that I think she's going to get from going downhill. That is going to be a very, very fast she's gonna.

Tom Butler: 1:17:27

She's gonna be very comfortable, very quickly she is very aware of what it's like to wipe out on water, you know, and she's gonna at some point take a tumble on this bike and it's going to be a very different experience. I'm nervous about it, it's going to take a little time, but I think she's going to enjoy going downhill fast.

McKenna Miler: 1:17:48

Definitely.

Tom Butler: 1:17:50

I said last question, but I have one more. What message of welcome to the party would you like to give to her at this point?

McKenna Miler: 1:17:58

I'm thinking of a couple of different things. I'm super glad that she found something that is going to accommodate her physical needs. We've talked so much about how she wants to get out more and she'd like to go hiking. She wants to be doing this thing with the family. When I announced to you guys that I was going to be doing training for this triathlon with Garen, it was during that conversation that she said okay, well, I guess I'm going to start biking. So my welcome is like all right, glad to see that you found what works for you. Not necessarily a finally you're here, but a like this is expected. Awesome, great timing, super excited.

Garren Miler: 1:18:46

Yeah, I mean I, I would count STP and RSVP and even even the shorter rides like Chilly Hilly, as some of the most fun things that I've done. And uh, I just am happy to be able to share that excitement with another person. The more the merrier perfect.

Tom Butler: 1:19:01

All right, that's it, thank you, and we'll keep you posted. All right, have a good night all right, you too.

Tom Butler: 1:19:18

I think all three of them showed that they know Kelly really well, and I think something that can be taken away from both conversations is that they are going to be invested in seeing Kelly succeed as she starts riding with us. I think having supportive people around us might be the biggest factor in being successful at riding later on in life. I'm expecting nothing but good times as Kelly gets used to her cruise bike. There is the possibility that it isn't going to work out and we will end up returning it. However, I think there's plenty to look at. That leaves me optimistic that we are starting a new exciting chapter in my Cycling Over 60 journey as we do more rides as a couple.

Tom Butler: 1:19:54

I have launched the Cycling Over 60 Strava group, but I'm still learning how to manage it, but please add your presence to the group. I want to do some group activities around National Senior Health and Fitness Day coming at the end of May. I'm currently looking for some sponsors to do a group challenge around that day, so hop in the group and see what we end up with. I have put a link to the Smarter Every Day YouTube video that I mentioned in the show notes. You can also find my email and the show Instagram in the show notes. I always love getting comments and topic suggestions and, of course, you can comment in the new Strava group, whether you are new to cycling, like Kelly, or have been at it for decades. I hope all your cycling adventures are fantastic and remember, age is just a gear change.