The Impact of Our Example

Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling Over 60 podcast, season 2, episode 25, the impact of our example, and I'm your host, tom Butler. Welcome to my podcast journaling, my cycling over 60 adventures and challenges. This week I went for the coldest ride I've ever been on. It was 20 degrees out and I know a lot of people have done colder than that, but for me it was something that I had to prepare for. There was very little wind, so that helped, but as I rode it got dark and I felt like the temperature dropped slightly. I rode about half of the 20 mile ride in the dark. The trail I was on is very safe at night, in my opinion. It was clear and there was very little snow on the trail that I used. There were a couple of bridges that were a little bit slick.

Tom Butler: 1:00

I wore three layers on my upper body. I had a long sleeve performance shirt under a fleece sweater and then my cycling jacket over those. For my legs I wore a pair of leggings under my bay leaf cold weather cycling pants. I had on a pair of thick, insulated cycling gloves and I had two pairs of wool socks on. I used my 510 cycling shoes that give a little more room for my feet to have the socks on. I did bring some electric hand warmers but I didn't end up using them, had my ears covered and a beanie under my helmet and also I used a face mask.

Tom Butler: 1:34

I started out with a goal of 30 miles because I needed to make up for the week I was sick in order to stay on a 10 mile a day average for the year. All in all, the ride wasn't too bad. It only took about a mile and a half for me to get warmed up from riding, so my upper body was plenty warm In fact I was too sweaty and my legs were also plenty warm. The face mask was very important. I think my face would have gotten too cold from the wind resistance when riding downhill. My hands were okay, but a little on the cold side. I pulled my fingers and my gloves from time to time to warm them up. I think I would have been better off with mittens and not gloves, but my feet were really cold.

Tom Butler: 2:14

I certainly didn't have the right solution for keeping my feet warm. I ended up turning around at 10 miles because I was concerned about how my feet were feeling. They started to really hurt with about 7 miles to go. When I got home, my wife felt like I probably had mild frostbite, based on the appearance of my toes. I'm not sure that was the case because they never really burned like I would expect frostbitten toes to feel, but the truth is I don't have great circulation in my feet and my toes are always a little numb. However, I truly don't believe that they were severely injured from the ride, but I don't want to experience that again.

Tom Butler: 2:49

One of the things I learned was that the nozzle in my water bottle freezes in 20 degrees. I would have to bite down on the nozzle to break the ice before I could get any water out. I went out a couple of days later to try and do something better for my feet. Someone had recommended wearing a plastic bag over my feet to stop the wind. Since my shoes are meant to let air through, I also put disposable toe warmers in my shoes. My feet were in much better shape, but I couldn't really tell if it was what I tried or the fact that it was 35 degrees out. The temperature and the fact that the sun was out for part of the ride was a huge difference, so I don't really think I learned anything about riding in colder weather. I did buy some rock bros winter boots to go over my shoes, so I'm very interested in seeing how that goes, and I do think I will use the toe warmers if it is below freezing.

Tom Butler: 3:39

For me, all of this experimentation is part of the fun. As far as my riding goals this year, I should have 180 miles in, but I'm only at 111 miles. What I really need is a week where the weather isn't so ugly. I got some fun news at the beginning of this year. My daughter, mckenna, has decided to start training to do the STP. She also has her sights set on doing a triathlon. That was a big surprise and it got me thinking about the influence we have on those around us, especially our kids. So I asked McKenna to come on the podcast to discuss how she has been influenced by my choice to start riding to get fit. Here is our conversation. I am joined today by McKenna Myler. Welcome to the podcast, mckenna Myler.

Tom Butler: 4:31

Hi I have had Garen Myler on the podcast a couple times and he's my son-in-law, so I am now talking to McKenna Myler, his wife. Obviously, that's my daughter. I never thought you were going to be on the podcast. Are you surprised to be coming on?

McKenna Miler: 4:51

I made a decision and when I made that decision I was hoping, if he's interviewing my husband, hopefully my dad will want to talk to me about something.

Tom Butler: 5:01

That's true. You are my actual child. I should want to talk to my actual child. The focus of this episode is about how we are an influence those of us made a decision to get healthy, to use biking as a way to get healthy about how that is an influence to those around us. That's really why, as my daughter, I wanted to have you come on. I am going to start out the way I start out a lot of times. What is a memory about biking that you have as a kid?

McKenna Miler: 5:37

Yeah, I feel like the first one that always comes to mind that I talked to a lot of people about is just a childhood memory, a core childhood memory. I really loved when we would ride our bikes to the Buckley Library. It was never that far and we'd only go on sunny days, but for a while we were going once a week. We would get whatever books I wanted and bring them back. I have so many fond memories of just summer days and just like, okay, we're going to go down to the library.

Tom Butler: 6:09

I think about us being on that road and about you being a young kid on that road. Sometimes I question my judgment about being on that road. Do you recall at all what it was like for you to exit our neighborhood and get out on the main road?

McKenna Miler: 6:27

Yeah, I just remember you being like I want you in front of me. We're on the right side of the road and so you're like I want to be behind you, so that cards are coming past me first. I always knew that it was like a safety consideration that I need to stay as far over on the right. You really pepped me before going out the road. I knew the rules were different once we left the neighborhood.

Tom Butler: 6:49

You always did a good job. I think a little bit part of your personality is like okay.

McKenna Miler: 6:55

I know the rules.

Tom Butler: 6:56

I'm going to follow the rules. I don't know. There's maybe a mile stretch there on that road. That again, it's not my favorite road, but we would also choose times of the day that the traffic was pretty light purposely by being on that road. How would you describe your interest in fitness through the years?

McKenna Miler: 7:20

I think that I mean we did hikes every weekend. It felt like growing up. I don't think I really started thinking about exercise and physical fitness until high school. In high school I started thinking about how I want to be able to be strong, because I saw how mom was really strong in her dentistry practice because of the work that she did when she was younger. I knew that she did that work in college, but I had this mindset of like, if she was doing all of this in college and she got really strong, I wonder what I could do if I really start now. And due to my focus and my interest, the only thing that really came out of that was swimming, which was really good for me in a lot of ways, both in my physical and in my mental health. I didn't really get more into like strength, like weightlifting, until college, so I'll kind of say that that's kind of the beginning of it.

Tom Butler: 8:20

You mentioned your mom, who the right thing to say is. When she was in dental school, she was buff. That's the right thing to say. She's always maintained a focus on physical fitness. Do you think it was more likely that your mom encouraged you to stay fit rather than me when you were growing up?

McKenna Miler: 8:43

I would definitely say that no offense.

Tom Butler: 8:46

Yeah, I get it. I get it. You did not see me as focused on fitness as your mom.

McKenna Miler: 8:53

Yeah, definitely not. Mom was always focused on physical exercises, even physical therapy growing up, very much focused on the building blocks of having a strong, mobile body.

Tom Butler: 9:06

There isn't a lot of focus on physical activities on either side of your extended family when you get beyond your mom as you're growing up. There's not a lot of examples there. Is that fair to say?

McKenna Miler: 9:20

Yeah, I would definitely say that I think it's really interesting. I feel like you have always had a real outdoor focus in my life, maybe more than mom did, but she had a real fitness focus. I think that that's the culmination of the two families distilled down in you two. It's something that really I feel like attracts you to each other. I was totally past all of that, which is awesome.

Tom Butler: 9:43

It's interesting because you weren't there in the beginning of our marriage. I think that we had before you were born and I'm not blaming you for this, but it was easier to get distracted after you were born from doing things like going to the gym or whatever. I feel, growing up, that you did not see me as having a focus on fitness and you definitely would see your mom promoting it, promoting physical fitness as an important part of general well-being. Would you think about your extended family? Do you see them as having no interest? Are there people in that family? It's a pretty health-focused family really overall, but it's interesting that there's just not that physical aspect to it. You and Garin are focused on working out. Did that come about as part of your relationship or do you think you both have that interest and then you came together, both having that interest?

McKenna Miler: 10:49

Yeah, we definitely came together both having that interest. Garin and I had a very long period of just being friends before we started dating or being interested in each other. There's definitely interest from Garin's side.

Tom Butler: 11:03

You were pursued.

McKenna Miler: 11:04

I was pursued and one thing that we did during that period of time that at our college there weren't a lot of co-ed places that we could hang out was go to the gym. And so by the time we were getting real close to dating and we were hanging out all the time, we were going to the gym just to hang out like three times a week. It was just a common interest that really brought us together. It's not like we came together and were like, hey, we have this interest, we should do it. It's like the foundation of us starting to have a formal relationship.

Tom Butler: 11:39

That's so interesting. It becomes kind of a foundational part of how you guys grew closer but, really out of necessity. Because, there was a lot of other things to do. That's interesting. Now I'm thinking that you're not too surprised that I started biking more.

McKenna Miler: 11:59

For sure. I knew my whole life that you really loved biking. I always saw the red bike that you had and I knew that there was never anything explicit, but it felt like I was like I need to not touch that bike. It felt like almost a trophy. This is a relic. We don't touch that bike. I can never force that. It was never like I couldn't, but it always felt like a relic is, I think, a good way to say it. So I always knew that you loved biking. It felt to me like there were periods of time where you wanted to get back into it, and one of those was when I was young and you wanted to start going to the library more and bike with me more. I could not keep up with you at that time, so you didn't have a buddy to go biking with at that point. But seeing how Garen really got into bikes both of you are very social and so it makes a ton of sense to me they're like, yeah, that's kind of a missing piece there.

Tom Butler: 12:59

I find that so interesting, the way that you described that bike, which was a Trek 1500. I keep trying to think it must have been like 84 or 85 somewhere there that I purchased that bike and, like you're talking about, like a museum piece. There's this thing in the garage that you don't touch because it's a museum piece, you know. So it's funny. We'll circle back to that in a little bit here.

Tom Butler: 13:27

I am not surprised that my interest in biking came through to you. It's just that the time I spent biking was so limited for so many years. When we went to the library it was like a three mile one way, you know, a six mile round trip thing. We would go and find books and come back home, which was a cool thing. I loved that, but it was not putting in any work on the bike. So at one point you know I'm sharing with you that I'm getting back. I'm taking biking more seriously. I did the great cycle challenge and then I announced that I wanted to do the SDP. Do you remember having any thoughts when I first talked about doing it?

McKenna Miler: 14:10

I remember being super excited I don't know if maybe you talked about it previously before saying you wanted to do it. I feel like I had known about it and I knew that it was like a big deal, like it definitely felt like a stretch goal to want to do the Seattle deportment bike ride. It feels very you. You talk about all the time how you would have loved to just get a motor home and like drive around the country, because I was homeschooled when I was younger, you know. So it feels very you, this kind of scenic ride in the summertime. It was so exciting to be like, ok, this is a, this is a real thing that could happen and be a catalyst.

Tom Butler: 14:51

I like that thought of catalyst. Did you think that I needed that kind of catalyst? Were you thinking my dad's out of shape. He needs something to get him back in the shape.

McKenna Miler: 15:00

Not necessarily. I definitely want my dad to be active when he's old, and so to think of a catalyst that could cause you to be mobile with me longer is very that's exciting. That's what's exciting to me.

Tom Butler: 15:15

That's cool and it's definitely part of it. You know the health changes I've made. There's definitely this element of I want to be there for my family longer. There's been several things that have kept me from doing things with my family. I don't want physical limitations to be there. That's a huge part of it. It is a huge motivation. It's interesting because you don't seem to think that I'm old. No, so what? What is old in your mind?

McKenna Miler: 15:46

I feel like it's a moving target. My grandparents are continually old and I'm never going to see you as old.

Tom Butler: 15:54

That's funny. It is an interesting dynamic, because I feel like I will say something and what I get from you is like I'm like 40 years old. In your mind or something it's like, yeah, for sure you can do that. I'm like I don't know. Yeah, you can do that for sure. So there's this element of like I don't take your view of my age that seriously.

McKenna Miler: 16:21

Hey.

Tom Butler: 16:23

You are not a trusted advisor when it comes to like how old you see me being.

McKenna Miler: 16:28

I think there's some sort of invincibility that comes with thinking about your dad and thinking about what your dad can accomplish, and I was always told you know, you set your mind to something, you can accomplish it, and I, in my short lifespan, have accomplished some pretty cool things, and I know that, and so have you, and so to me it's like you wanna do something. Yeah, you're gonna do it. Of course you're gonna do it.

Tom Butler: 16:53

Now the truth of the matter is, your view of my age, like two years ago, was actually more aligned with how old I feel now than my view of my age was. You know, again, like two years ago, I was like I could never do the STP. I missed my chance to do the STP, but I think you would have been. No, if you wanna do it, you can do it, you know, and that's turned out to be the case. A couple of episodes ago, I interviewed Anita Elder and she's amazing, I find her to be amazing and she talked about how she got emotional when she crossed the STP finish line. I did too, and a part of that was that you were there, you and your mother. Mother both greeted us as we came across the finish line. I'm wondering what thoughts were going on in your mind as I was coming in on the STP.

McKenna Miler: 17:48

I am a feelings person, not a thinking person as much, so for me there weren't really a lot of thoughts, it was just a lot of like. I wanna absorb every single second of this moment. So we were cheering you know I love cheering people on and so we were there right at the as close to the finish line as we could be, just cheering you guys on and I just remember scanning your face and we were worried about you, right Cause it was hot and we know you were pushing yourself. So we were like worried, like okay, what's he gonna be like when he gets here? And to see you smile going across that finish line was just like it choked me up.

McKenna Miler: 18:28

And of course, seeing my husband go across the finish line was awesome too, but I know it wasn't as much of a purge for him. So once we met you and we walked around and we met you guys and embraced, I think I actually cried real tears because I was really proud of you and I. That will always be such a moment in my mind of like and I do think catalyst is the right word of like. This is huge. This proves that you can do what you want to do, even if you think you've already missed it.

Tom Butler: 19:00

Yeah, it's a, it's a message, you know, and it's like, yeah, I think this catalyst is a good word. The whole training to do it and the things that I experienced along the way, the times where I was like I don't know, maybe this isn't gonna work, maybe I'm gonna be too slow, maybe I am too old, and then, like working through that, you know that was a game changer for sure.

McKenna Miler: 19:24

And it felt really good to be part of it, like we were supporting you guys, right. And it felt really good to bring you that ice cold jersey on the second day and to be like, okay, this is another cold thing to help them get through this blazing heat, like record heat that we're experiencing this weekend. So it was a source of pride of like the family coming together.

Tom Butler: 19:47

Describe this on a previous podcast, but for people who haven't heard that part, it was hot, it was, I think it was over 100 degrees and I was feeling it. I don't really do that well in the heat and I was really feeling it and I had left a jersey behind that I'd wore the day before as, washed it out by hand, and then they brought it to me halfway through and they had packed it in ice and so it was wet and it was freezing cold and I was really hot and I put that jersey on and it was like freezing cold. I mean, it was like shockingly cold to try to get that jersey on, but it felt so good and then, like in a matter of seconds, it was hot. That was a really smart thing to do. That was really helpful.

Tom Butler: 20:38

So I make the announcement that I'm going to start training for the STP. And then Garen surprised me, you know, when he was like I'll do it with you, you know, and it was a great surprise. Can you talk about him making a decision to do that? Had you guys talked about that first, or had he pretty much made the decision without really you guys talking about it?

McKenna Miler: 21:02

If there was discussion it wouldn't have been much. It would have been like yeah for sure, do it. He's the kind of person to just hop on things and just do them last minute and spontaneously. And this was months in advance and, knowing how well you two get along, it was like yes, absolutely Like. It was kind of like I want you guys to bond in that way, you can be motivation for him and you guys can draft off of each other. So that's going to be huge in training and on the actual ride. So I don't know if we even really discussed it and he told me before he told you, but it was just like yeah, of course, that's awesome.

Tom Butler: 21:39

And so I think he would not have considered doing it. Maybe he would have over time, but I think it was a situation where me doing it kind of really opened his mind up to that. You know, to that as an option.

McKenna Miler: 21:54

For sure.

Tom Butler: 21:55

I remember, you know, us doing the ride on my birthday, my 60th birthday. We went 60 miles, which at that point was the longest ride I'd done in a long time and that was just really fun. It was really a fun way to spend my birthday just like accomplishing that and spending time together, so that was fun. Then we got together later and went out to eat. It was a really fun day. It seems like that has been something that kind of is a part of our family now that Garen and I are cyclists.

Tom Butler: 22:25

I'm wondering about you now. You're seeing me improving my health and I'm going to give you a bit of information here. I had the continuous glucose monitor for a while and that really has changed the way that I think about food. There were some outcomes from that that needed to be measured in my blood, and so I went in and had some lab work done. There's a few of those things that I wanted to share with you. As an observer of me kind of working on my health, I'll share these things with you. So the first thing is that I'm probably now so I'm hovering around 203 pounds. I'm trying to get down to 200. I'm probably now lighter. I probably have less fat right now than I ever have had in your entire life. I don't think you have ever seen me with less fat than I have now. Do you see that? When you see me, Are you like this looks different than the dad I grew up with, or not really?

McKenna Miler: 23:27

I feel it when I hug you. I don't really see a difference. We've talked about this kind of my whole life, but you don't really put on fat in one specific place, so you shrink as a whole. So it's not something that I can really see, but I definitely experience it when I hug you.

Tom Butler: 23:48

Yeah, that's interesting. I don't know how much more that will change. It seems like I've shrunken down the fat from my back and my shoulders and my neck and all of that and now it's just belly fat. So we'll see. It'll be interesting, as I get leaner, if that will change much.

McKenna Miler: 24:08

I think the only thing that I've really seen and I have to think back to photos of when I was a kid I remember back in high school I saw a photo of you when I was like three and I was like, oh my word, his neck is so wide and so, looking at you now, your neck has a curvature to it that I never really notice unless I look back at photos, which I think is really an interesting, very, actually visual thing.

Tom Butler: 24:36

One of the things that lab showed is that my A1C is 6.3. So that was really disappointing, because the last time I did it in October it was 6.4. Now there's this weird dynamic that they changed the test and I can't find out how they relate, but at the same time my A1C did not come down as far as I was hoping it come down. The continuous glucose monitor showed that what would be equivalent to my A1C was running about six. That's what I was hoping for. So 6.3, it keeps me below that diabetic diagnosis, type 2 diabetes diagnosis, but it's still high. But since I've been doing some studying, then insulin levels are important and so my fasting insulin is actually very good. The people that look at this from a perspective of metabolic function want you under 15 for your insulin score, and I'm at 7.9 and they really like a level about five. So that's optimal. So I really like that.

Tom Butler: 25:57

I would love to know if that's changed, because if I'm maintaining a 6.3 A1C but my insulin levels are much lower or that, then that's really good news For me. It's possible that all these changes the weight loss and everything has modified my biggest risk factor, which is my level of insulin. So that's really good news. The other thing that's really good news is that my lipids are excellent, and especially my triglycerides. So I have increased the amount of fat I've been eating since I changed what I'm doing, so I was somewhat nervous about that, but they're excellent. But from that level of risk then I feel really good about it. And that's probably almost all of that is probably the cycling, getting out and getting healthy that way.

Tom Butler: 26:54

And then the final thing is that there's a liver enzyme test, that they do an ALT, and that looks really good. Again, I'm not really sure what that means If it looks better than what it did before. I don't have pre and post, but what it does say is that from that perspective, from a fatty liver disease perspective, a non-alcoholic fat or liver disease perspective then my risk looks really good. Right now, as I'm looking at these lab results, the biggest thing is that I'm catching what was a growing metabolic disorder. I'm either catching at the right time or I'm actually. What I believe is I've actually done some things to reverse some of that metabolic dysfunction. That puts me in a much better place for the future. So as you hear kind of that information, I'm wondering what impact that has on you as my daughter.

McKenna Miler: 27:54

I mean it's great to hear. Of course, it is taking a not necessarily a large load, but it is taking a load off of my shoulders. It feels like I'm lighter, Not only to hear that your health is improving, but to hear that you're having results from what you're doing and how encouraging that is, that what you're doing is working. So it's not that you're trying these things and you're limiting your diet and it's not doing anything Like you are seeing major improvements in very tangible ways and that's so exciting for you, having followed you on this past year plus journey of really trying to shift things up.

Tom Butler: 28:39

Diet has always been a focus in our family. You grew up as a vegetarian. I think you're still mostly eat as a vegetarian, with some fish thrown in and it has typically been your mother who has been promoting different food choices. What do you think about my new food choices?

McKenna Miler: 29:03

I think they're very restricted and I think that you're really strong for keeping up with it. I, to be honest with you, I don't know a ton of details. I just know that when I'm looking for restaurants to go to even like Thai food the best food on the planet you can't have most of that. So I know that it's very calculated. I know that you're making very intentional decisions about what you're eating and I know that if I was trying to change my metabolic function, I would want to have very specific things that I'm focusing on and that I'm measuring. So I think the diet, not just for a diet's sake, not just for like to do a keto or a paleo diet, but to have specific metrics that you're following up with, tracking your insulin levels, your glucose levels I think that that's what makes it not sound crazy.

Tom Butler: 29:59

It is pretty crazy and like not eating Thai food. That's a big deal.

McKenna Miler: 30:04

It's a big deal.

Tom Butler: 30:05

I mean, that was that's like my go-to food and I don't know what to do about it. Like I remember not eating donuts and that was a big deal. I love donuts and now I'm like not eating Thai food. It's like terrible.

McKenna Miler: 30:21

Yeah, I mean I feel like Thai food's a way bigger deal than donuts. But you know that's from my experience growing up, where I had Thai food way more than I had donuts.

Tom Butler: 30:31

Yeah, yeah. Does it inspire you to eat better? Do you think, like watching the way that I eat inspires you to eat better, or is it just inspiring you to go out to good food when I'm not around?

McKenna Miler: 30:47

I think that it inspires me to focus on what I'm focused on. I don't think that my body's needs are anywhere close to where your body's needs are, and so my focus has really been on nutritionally dense foods and getting the right, kind enough food, whereas for you it sounds like it's more of a limiting focus, and so Garen and I shop at like PCC, and we get all organic, natural, local foods as much as we can, and so seeing you focus on your diet gives me encouragement to focus on my diet in the ways that I am being intentional, but not necessarily to focus on what you're focusing on, because I recognize how different our body's needs are.

Tom Butler: 31:42

You guys are pretty deliberate about what you buy for food, and part of what I'm looking at is really avoiding as much as possible highly processed food, and it seems like you guys do that.

McKenna Miler: 31:59

Well, I am just so incredibly blessed and lucky that my husband does all the cooking that he does. He is an amazing chef and he consistently just makes more and more food from scratch. He made pizza from scratch and sauce from scratch tonight, with fresh produce on as our toppings, and so that is a huge factor. I'm not sure that I would be doing that on my own.

Tom Butler: 32:25

Yeah, so you guys are abnormal as far as American diet goes. And also you mentioned PCC. So people from not at this area PCC is a food co-op. They have a tendency to source their food a little bit differently. They're a higher quality food and it's more expensive. What do you guys think about at your age? The investment you make in buying real food?

McKenna Miler: 32:56

I mean, it's a major decision. We definitely choose having a large budget for groceries over entertainment. So, rather than going out and seeing a movie or buying games or anything like that, we really have a focus on outdoors and buying that food, and we limit ourselves to that. We're also both early in our careers, so we're working with a limited budget and we have had several discussions where we choose OK, nope, we're going to continue having this budget for our groceries, despite inflation and everything that we're seeing across the US when it comes to food prices and quality food prices.

Tom Butler: 33:44

I think that we see a lot of the influence that your mother and I have had on you, and part of that is for your entire life. Part of that is lately, and you have made a decision now that I'm pretty excited about, which is that you're going to start riding bikes more.

McKenna Miler: 34:05

Yep.

Tom Butler: 34:06

Talk about the genesis of that.

McKenna Miler: 34:11

So Garen has been saying for a couple months now that he wants to do a triathlon and I have seen you guys do all these bike rides in 2023. And I have supported, but I was not in the position to join that. And I'm thinking about him doing a triathlon which includes swimming, which I love, and so I've just been thinking over these past couple of months. I want to be able to do that with him Now. I don't think that there's a way for me to do that in 2024.

McKenna Miler: 34:45

And so I didn't say anything for a long time, but I came to realize in December that I could train this year and if I could get him to agree to move our triathlon to 2025, I could do it with him. And so on New Year's Day of 2024, I asked Garen if he'd be willing to do that and made the New Year's resolution that I'm going to start training for a triathlon this year. So I bought new running shoes and I'm sure you're going to want to talk about the bike that I'll be riding and we're going to figure out a gym membership where we can start training swimming.

Tom Butler: 35:27

So the swimming part of it, I think you feel confident that you're going to. It's going to take some training, but I think you feel confident You're doing a sprint marathon. So what are the distances?

McKenna Miler: 35:40

It's one mile swimming, 25 miles cycling and about 6 and 1 half miles running. That's a 10K running.

Tom Butler: 35:49

You're choosing, not an Iron man.

McKenna Miler: 35:52

No.

Tom Butler: 35:52

Which is wise, but it will take you a bit swimming to get back into shape with that. How do you feel about the running part of it?

McKenna Miler: 36:02

That's the part I'm looking for, to least for sure. That's going to be a mental battle, I think, more than a physical battle. I have no concerns about being able to get in shape for that, but it being the last leg of the triathlon and the thing that I dislike the most, but really the only thing I do dislike of the three, I know that it's going to be a mental push.

Tom Butler: 36:28

Not too long ago, Garin did an event that I did not do about cry that I didn't do, but we all went together to support him and then we ended up giving a ride to someone who's just like just a super interesting person, I think, and she does all kinds of events, including triathlons, but she's like their major time, big time triathlons. Did she influence you at all? You think kind of hearing her adventures.

McKenna Miler: 36:59

Potentially. I see what age she is and how much of an absolute beast she is and there's totally this thing in my mind of like I would love to be like that when I'm her age and she's not that much older than me, but there's enough time that I'm like OK, maybe if I start now. I know for a fact I will never do everything that she has done, but she recently did an Iron man and I kind of got to see her process of her training and what she did for that, and she has a hilarious way of putting things on her stories and so it was really engaging and fun to watch that, and so I would say it was definitely more Garin and his drive and what he wants to do. But, being someone who likes to follow the rules and know what's coming, it was very cool to see her training regimen and how she went through that.

Tom Butler: 37:52

So to me it's kind of interesting because we met her, because we were involved in events and so it feels like the more events like you and Garin are involved in, it's going to be like the social network that kind of reinforces things. I think that there's been this family influence that you've had your whole life and again, I think recently, like my decision to do things than Garin's decision to do them with me how to begin influence. But it will be interesting the more people that you meet, the more women that you meet. That are beasts.

Tom Butler: 38:33

You know kind of how that triggers that part of you. I'm going to be very interested in watching that. We talked about the swimming, we talked about the running. Now, I didn't think you would get into biking.

McKenna Miler: 38:47

Really.

Tom Butler: 38:48

I've heard you talk about what you see as how unfriendly bikes are to women, to women physiology and everything. I'm like she's never going to get on a bike, but that's not the case. What changed there? Did you learn some stuff, or what changed?

McKenna Miler: 39:11

I think the biggest thing that I learned is that there are bikes built around women's geometry and the difference there, to know that there are different types of saddles that are specifically made to be more forgiving. I think that that's huge because I growing up it was just like a regular bike seat. I had no idea that there were different types of bike seats or ways to even adjust the bike. That I'm learning about now that I'm so new to, but I'm learning about now. There was a lot of research that Garin did over the past year because he loves doing things with me, I love doing things with him and we love being active together. He's been doing a lot of research like, hey, look, there's live bikes, there's these types of saddles, there's this adjustment where you can space the pedals out. This could be good for you. I think it was just an accumulation of learning all those things. This is tough to admit that his research really, his little pokes, really got to me.

Tom Butler: 40:17

You don't want to give him that knowledge for the future right.

McKenna Miler: 40:21

Right.

Tom Butler: 40:22

It's like I don't want you to know that this is effective. This motive motivated me. That's hilarious.

McKenna Miler: 40:28

That being said, knowing that there are options and knowing that even we have a bike shop in Seattle, free range cycles that's women cyclist focused is really encouraging.

Tom Butler: 40:42

You are starting out with, in my opinion, one of the worst bikes you could start out on.

McKenna Miler: 40:50

I have to disagree.

Tom Butler: 40:54

Just so people know, the red bike that was in the garage that was like a museum piece is the Trek 1500 that I bought when I was younger and I did more cycling. Now that is the bike that you and Garen are working on for you to start riding. It doesn't fit. There's no ways that that bike fits.

McKenna Miler: 41:25

I've really been shocked in the type of adjustments that we're able to make on that bike. I actually think it's going to work pretty well. I'm really excited to start riding on it and we're actually going to take it out for a test ride for the first time after this.

Tom Butler: 41:38

What do you mean after this Tonight?

McKenna Miler: 41:41

Oh cute.

Tom Butler: 41:42

I wanted to be there. Now I get somewhat nervous about that bike. Okay, so this is a real dad-daughter moment for the podcast. So you're not used to clipping in on a bike and you've got cleats, right, you've got shoes with cleats, you're going to be clipped in, and that makes me nervous. You're going to be going out on the city streets and you're going to be clipped in when you come to a stop. You need to be clipping out before you stop the bike's momentum. Do you have that in your mind? I want to clip out before this bike comes to stop.

McKenna Miler: 42:25

Yes, I now have that in my mind.

Tom Butler: 42:27

Is tonight going to be the first time that you're riding a bike where you're clipped in?

McKenna Miler: 42:31

It may not be. The main point of testing tonight is to test the saddle that we're renting, so I may just ride regular pedals.

Tom Butler: 42:41

Did he put regular pedals on it?

McKenna Miler: 42:42

I don't remember what he did.

Tom Butler: 42:45

I would feel better if you were riding regular pedals.

McKenna Miler: 42:49

Well, I'm coming to the end of my saddle renting, so I do need to try out the saddle before we do.

Tom Butler: 42:56

Which is a cool thing. The shop gives you a saddle and you pay a fee. If you find out that that saddle doesn't feel right, then you go swap it and then eventually that fee gets built into buying the saddle that you feel works best for you. That's a really cool thing. I'm glad you're doing that, but you do need to practice just getting in your head the fact that you need to unclip, so I don't want you to fall over.

McKenna Miler: 43:30

Well, thankfully I won't be going out alone.

Tom Butler: 43:32

And we have very nice bike lanes. It's true, but it's a different thought process. Clipping out Okay, I've harped on that at a good dad level of harping. The other thing is that that bike is too long for you.

McKenna Miler: 43:48

So we're changing the goose neck attachment for the handlebars to be much shorter and we've moved the saddle or the seat all the way forward. So, as far as I understand, you want to have a 90 degree angle between your arms and your torso, and we have been able to achieve that with plenty by changing that configuration.

Tom Butler: 44:13

Yeah, your geometry and my geometry are very different. Your legs are almost as long as my legs, I think, but your upper body is much shorter than mine and there's going to definitely have to be some adjustments in that. So there is an element of being out on that bike tonight, that is, it's not going to feel the best.

McKenna Miler: 44:34

Right, and the idea is that this is a temporary bike and that I will be riding it on STP this year, but there will be a different bike coming that I will ride the triathlon with.

Tom Butler: 44:49

So there's another element to riding that bike. That bike was a decent bike when I bought it. The shifting is on the down tube. I don't think you've ever had that kind of a shifter.

McKenna Miler: 45:01

No, I have not. I don't have a ton of practice shifting either. I haven't ridden a bike that you've shift on in probably a decade.

Tom Butler: 45:14

So there's an element of getting used to not just shifting but reaching down in time to shift, and so you know if you're coming around a corner and going up a hill, then you've got to be thinking ahead of time of shifting. Yeah, I think it's a good thing that I'm not riding with you on your first ride, because I think I'd be shouting out instructions.

McKenna Miler: 45:37

You'd probably be more distracting than helpful. I just what.

Tom Butler: 45:42

I'd probably crash Downshift, downshift. Oh, whoops bam.

McKenna Miler: 45:48

That's part of the reason why we want to start now is because we want to figure these things out and figure out if we do need to buy me a bike. We can, you know. Hopefully we'll have enough time to be able to do that.

Tom Butler: 45:58

That's very smart. I like that. And then you have been concerned about saddles and we talked here a bit about you're renting the saddle. Do you feel like you've talked to enough women that have said you're going to be able to find a saddle or you still? Are you very much getting educated about saddles?

McKenna Miler: 46:17

I am very much being educated. I haven't talked to a ton of people. I am very used to figuring out, you know, what works for my body and I don't feel like my body type fits a lot of other people, so it hasn't even really occurred to me to talk to a lot of other women. They gave me their highest recommended one at the free range cycles from their library. Just sitting on the bike felt good. You know. I haven't ridden a bike with a chamois before, so I know that that's going to change the experience quite a bit, kind of going for more of a trial and error on the saddle at this point.

Tom Butler: 46:53

There's another element to use, cycling which I think is going to be kind of interesting, and that's you were born with fused vertebrae in your neck and so I'm wondering kind of flexibility and stuff. I'm wondering if have you thought about talking to someone about that, a physical therapist, or somebody about hey, you know what, what should I be thinking about as far as this particular aspect of my body?

McKenna Miler: 47:19

I haven't thought about talking to someone physical therapy wise for my neck.

McKenna Miler: 47:25

I know that chiropractic is really important for me and part of that is that I love the chiropractor I go to and he's so much more than just a chiropractor.

McKenna Miler: 47:34

You know so much about the human body. I think that I've kind of learned over the past kind of sense in college how I need to really focus on my posture and how I need to hold my neck and what muscles I need to strengthen, particularly in my mid, to lower back, to pull my shoulders back and down. It's my C2 and C3, right at the base of my neck, at top of my shoulders, that are fused so and you can feel it. I remember being able to feel this bump in my neck and I never knew what it was until I got that X-ray and it's like, oh okay, that that makes sense. It's definitely been years of me kind of learning from different types of doctors. You know what I need to do and now that I have this goal, it's to me it feels like it's more implementing what I've learned and then adjusting from there as I feel pain in different places.

Tom Butler: 48:23

Yeah, I want to go a different direction. Now you are a product designer.

McKenna Miler: 48:29

Mm, hmm.

Tom Butler: 48:29

And one of the things that I'm really interested in is, as you start biking, I want to see some product design insight, insights that come from your biking. Do you think about that at all? Do you think as you get into biking there's going to be things that you're thinking about materials or design or anything like that?

McKenna Miler: 48:50

I definitely think there is going to be a huge focus on biking as a woman, and maybe this is something that maybe should be adjusted. This is something you can do. It's absolutely a mindset. The problem solving product design or mindset is absolutely a thing. There's a mathematical aspect that I will not be thinking about. I'll be thinking more about ergonomics and aesthetics and functionality, more than specs maybe that might not be the right word but more than bike parts, it'll be more of like attachments and accessories, I think kind of thing I'll be focused on.

Tom Butler: 49:29

Yeah, I'll be interesting kind of what comes out of that. Do you think that free range cycle is going to be like a resource for you? Do you see it as that kind of thing?

McKenna Miler: 49:40

I do yeah, for sure.

Tom Butler: 49:41

That's going to be very interesting. I'll be interested to go check that out someday. The one thing that we haven't talked about is like getting your mom out on a bike.

McKenna Miler: 49:51

Yeah, that was so interesting when we came over, like it must have been the second day, like the day after or even the same day. I think we were driving home that day on New Year's Day when I said I was going to do the triathlon and mom just kind of sits back and says, wow, I've seen my entire world just change in front of my eyes. In her mind she's like okay, my whole family's doing the same thing, I guess I need to as well. Yeah, I think a switch has totally flipped in her brain.

Tom Butler: 50:23

She is going to be a challenge as far as finding a bike that is comfortable for her as well. I think that will be an interesting thing for you and her to bond on. As far as women's cyclists, I think that she'll probably always ride an e-bike. The e-bike that she currently has does not have a lot of flexibility for adjustment, so we're going to have to find something that we can adjust for her. I would have to say it feels really good to be a positive influence on you as far as your fitness is concerned. I like that a lot and I think that's definitely true, right, absolutely and I think it's maybe the first time in my life that I've really been that kind of a health influence on you more than your mom, so that's interesting. What would you say about what it means to kids If you look back at both as a young kid and as an adult child? What would you say it means to kids that have parents that are watching grandparents improve their own fitness?

McKenna Miler: 51:27

I think there's a lot of rhetoric around enjoy your childhood and enjoy when you're young, because it changes when you're 30, your body starts falling apart.

McKenna Miler: 51:38

And so for me to see you and I think, for other people my age, to see people who are riding their bikes in their 70s there's so many videos of these insane women that are in their 90s and they can do push-ups and all of these exercises like mobility exercises, and they're just continuing to be able to do day to day things. For me, I feel less like the world ends when I turn 30. I get to enjoy the rest of my life and I get to when I hit 60, my life is going to continue and I'm going to still get outside and do the things that I want to do and I can be cycling and to be able to have a range, to see the things that my parents are getting involved in and what they're able to do at their age. It's like, okay, I'm going to be able to keep these hobbies up when I'm old and maybe that's something that I put a little bit more effort into now, knowing it's a longevity.

Tom Butler: 52:34

It's important thing to be able to see that and to have that shift about what aging looks like. I think it's so important for our nation really to have the example of how different it looks to be older and to be fit. The thing that I think about most is trying to get the message across stay with it. I got away from it for 20 years or whatever, so what I would like the message of my life to be is stay with it. First, be fit, be active, but stay with it, because coming back from it is a lot harder than staying with it, and the thing that interferes the most is time, is having time to stay with it, and just make it important enough that you take the time. That's what I would like my message to be.

McKenna Miler: 53:29

I think there's a huge aspect to leading by example, being a parent that says, hey, I want to go cycling, and so that's how you hang out with your parent is that they say I want to go cycling with you and so, okay, if I want to hang out with my dad, I need to get a bicycle so I can go out and we can go on these long, all day rides and really bond over that and really bringing your kids into those hobbies. Because knowing that now I'm going to be able to go on those all day bicycling rides that you and Garin do on Sundays, I'm so excited for that. I never felt a ton of pressure to go with you guys because I didn't have a bike that could do that, but I always felt we'll be like I wish I could be with them. That's cool.

Tom Butler: 54:11

No, that's well said. Well, mckenna, thank you so much for having this conversation with me. I'm going to be so interested to have another conversation with you, like before you do the triathlon a year from now or whatever, when you've had some time and you've adjusted the bike and you see how it fits and so you know. You know a lot more about how you're actually to biking, so I'm interested in doing that. But thanks for doing this. Yeah, it's always fun, so I will talk to you later, I'm sure. So take care. Okay, you too. Bye.

Tom Butler: 55:00

As I mentioned, it feels good to have that kind of impact on my daughter and her husband. It is hard for me to remember the mindset I had in my early 20s, but I do know it is easy to think you were done taking on physical challenges when you hit 30 or 40, unless you have a role model of someone who is active later on in life. It's fun to think about having McKenna along on training rides and also on the STP. Honestly, for some reason I'm hoping that I have to struggle to keep up with her. That will be really fun to see her get stronger than me.

Tom Butler: 55:28

It's funny that I worry about her crashing more than I worry about myself or Garin. It isn't that I feel she is less competent, it's far from that. It's just that I would feel so responsible she ends up getting seriously injured from cycling. I am really motivated to stay with my efforts to regain my health, knowing that my family is watching and getting inspired by my choices. I would love to hear about your experiences riding with your kids. If you have done that, have you felt like you have been a role model to younger people? I hope you are off to a great start, to a new year of cycling adventures. Keep on the path to better health while enjoying the great outdoors, even if the outdoors is a little cold. And remember age is just a gear change.