A Lifetime of Keeping Bikes Rolling

Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling Over 60 Podcast, season 2, episode 24, a Lifetime of Keeping Bikes Rolling, and I'm your host, tom Butler. I am back as I continue my journey to use cycling to reverse lifestyle related diseases and roll back time. As I mentioned in the episode on Goals for the Year, I'm looking to do an average of 10 miles a day in 2024. This is day 11, so I should be at 110 miles, but I am only at 70. So to stay on track, I need to pick up 70 miles in the next three days. I actually see that as doable. However, to make that, I need to do two things. One is to be able to ride in cold temperatures, and the other is to ride after dark.

Tom Butler: 0:58

I'm very happy with my cold weather gear so far. I have some great cold weather pants from Belief that's B-A-L-E-A-F. I'm really impressed with all their stuff, and for Christmas I also got a perfect cycling beanie to wear under my helmet. My gloves are terrific and I've been taking a fleece face mask with me to pull up on the downhills or if there's going to be wind. The only vulnerable part is my feet. I have some neoprene toe covers to go over my shoes, but my feet are still pretty cold. It is bearable, but I wouldn't mind finding a better solution. Now Rock Bros have a heating cycling boot that costs $80. I would not need that very often, but I'm really tempted to get them. I wouldn't want a different shoe, because my specialized Torch 2.0 shoes are perfect for my feet, especially with the specialized inserts. A heated overboot seems like something to try. I'm going to try to get out in 25 degrees this weekend to see how I do. It is rare for it to get this cold here, so if I can handle that, I can pretty much handle anything here, except, of course, if there's a lot of snow, and it is snowing lightly out right now as I'm recording this. There are so many times that I'm getting out late in the afternoon and I've been cutting rides short to not be out after dark, but it just isn't going to work. I have a great trail that I can ride on at night and I'm pretty much the only one on the trail.

Tom Butler: 2:22

What I discovered recently was that my headlamp is just not bright enough, so I did some headlamp shopping. I found an LSAN headlamp pretty cheap on Amazon. I don't know how to pronounce L-S-A-N, so I'm just going to give the letters. It claims to be 1200 lumens. I have no way to test it, but it certainly is brighter than my old headlamp. It is rechargeable and waterproof and it can also serve as a portable charger. It was really cheap. However, I'm not sure I should have gone with it. I looked all over for info on LSAN and I couldn't find anything, so it is impossible to get an idea about labor practices behind their products. I feel like that is something I should have taken into account. I also got tired of a wet streak down my back and butt, so I picked up an SKS S-Blade rear fender. They are a German company and I do feel pretty good about doing business with them. The fender is a very practical design and I know it will make a big difference in the rain.

Tom Butler: 3:18

I need to get out and do more climbing. The chilly, hilly ride is in 45 days. It is 2173 feet of elevation in 33 miles. That will be a challenge for me. My climbing training route is about a mile with 390 feet of elevation gain. If I ride that three times I'm getting over a thousand feet and six miles. I can easily turn that into a 10 mile ride, so then it would count towards my 10 mile average, but by doing that I'm not making up for days missed. There is access to a bike path near the hill so I could add additional miles, but my legs are usually pretty wiped out after the three climbs. I do need to prioritize the climbing now, otherwise I'm afraid I'm going to get left behind on chilly hilly.

Tom Butler: 4:02

One final note I was able to swap out the spring in my future shock on the Roubaix without much problem, so I feel some confidence going into 2024 concerning my ability to do some of my own bike maintenance. That's good news. I recently watched a news story featuring the owner of a small local bike shop named Phil Meyer. I was very intrigued by how he has spent a lifetime keeping bikes rolling. It is tough for small shops to make it and I called Phil to ask if he would come on the podcast and talk about his journey. Here is our discussion. I would like to welcome Phil Meyer to the podcast. Thanks for joining me today, phil.

Phil Meyer : 4:46

Sure Tom, no problem, glad to be here. I'm here at Phil's Bike Shop before we open up on a slow day, but happy to chat and talk about bike stuff.

Tom Butler: 4:54

Awesome. I brought Phil on because I believe he represents something special in the cycling world. Phil owns Phil's Bike Shop, as he said, in Federal Way, washington. I think as we talk you will see why I think of Phil and his shop is unique. Let me start out just by asking what is the early memory that you have of a bike?

Phil Meyer : 5:16

Early memory I have of a bike. Well, I'm the youngest of seven, grew up on the south side of Chicago, had five older sisters. We didn't have a lot of money but mom and dad worked. We were fine, middle-class people but I never had my own bike, as I recall, until probably I was 16 or 17. But the first bike I recall is at a friend's house three blocks away and it wasn't a stingray but kind of a copy like a Raleigh or something like that.

Phil Meyer : 5:41

I did not know how to ride a bike. Parents were busy. Nobody ever taught me like hey, this is how you ride a bike. And I remember watching my buddy ride a bike and then I just started sitting on this banana seat and just kind of doing the scoot and then, before you know it, I was actually pedaling down his driveway. So it was like an early version of a run bike. So it was like an aha moment for me. I'm like, oh my God, I can do this. This is awesome. And that was at probably at like age eight or something like that. So it was relatively late, like we never had bikes with training wheels and all that kind of stuff. It was, you know, and we were old school free range children running around the neighborhood. So we just learned what we could as we went along. So I remember that bike and then the other bike.

Phil Meyer : 6:16

I remember that the first brand new bike was I was in high school probably age 15, like something like that and we went to a big department store in the Chicago area called Zayers and my mom bought a Huffy the wind. So Huffy, if anybody knows, bikes is not exactly known for quality, but that was what we could afford and it was like a road bike but it was aerodynamics. So all the tubes were aero and the brake levers were aero and all this stuff, even though it weighed 38 pounds. But I was excited to have it. And then I thought it was really cool, until I got my first job in a bike shop and then I realized this maybe isn't the best bike for me, but so each bike has been a progression. It's funny If you're a bike person, every single new bike you get is like oh my God, this is like the best bike ever. Why didn't I get a bike a while ago? You know, probably up to my 15th new bike, at least by now and I'm still excited when I get a new one.

Tom Butler: 7:04

That's awesome. I believe you started working on bikes in your teens and I wonder if you could talk about what got you going with bike service.

Phil Meyer : 7:15

So, being the youngest of the seven kids in the South Side of Chicago, we all went to public school and I was progressing through school. Okay, in high school I kind of fell in with the wrong crowd and just had a bad attitude. And by sophomore year I was just like I'm just not going to school. I just started cutting school and hanging out and partying and doing stupid stuff. And this was at a school where, like it's a marginal school, like if you get kicked out of this school, you know what are they going to do to you. Well, after about six months of that and I got a bunch of bad grades they were like well, you know what, we're going to kick you out of school. So I actually got kicked out of my high school in the South Side of Chicago. Then it was kind of a wake up moment, like, oh my God, what am I going to do? I can't live here in my parents' basement and just live off of other people. I mean, I have to. It was time to wake up and, like, be responsible. I guess it was kind of like my moment of like, oh my God, I'm headed down the wrong path here, I better do something.

Phil Meyer : 8:05

So I went to this small private school for about a year downtown Chicago and only had like a dozen students. It wasn't a real school. I didn't feel like I belonged and at that point it wasn't a lack of intelligence that I had or I felt their ability, it was just motivation. So I was completely motivated, did really well at that school for a year and then I ended up getting back into Morgan Park High School. We petitioned them back and we're like, hey, he's turned the corner, he's ready to come back. It took a while but they actually let me back in. So I was about a year behind and by the time I got back in I took a lot of classes and one class I was in was a wood shop, slash print shop and then I got to know the teacher real well and I would work the printing machines and we'd actually make a lot of the forms for school and all that kind of stuff. Well, part of the job in this class was also an ICE, industrial cooperative education where this teacher would pick out students that he thought were a good match and he would place them in these different jobs that had opportunities and you might get out of class. You know one or school one class early, and one of the jobs that he frequently had was a local bike shop. So it was Beverly Cyclery, on the south side of Chicago, at 91st and Western Avenue. The bike shop is still there today.

Phil Meyer : 9:11

I was like, oh well, I mean, I know how to work on bikes because, you know, I, I tinkered on bikes and I worked on all these hand-me-down bikes I had and whatever. And so I got a job at that bike shop, quickly realized how much I did not know and I really had an aptitude for it, though I really enjoyed the mechanical workings of a bicycle and how the brakes worked and resolved all these problems I had in the past. I remember trying to fix bikes and I was like, well, I can fix the wheels, I can fix the brakes, but the brake has to be about four inches wide because the wheel is so bent that that's just the best that I could do. And I realized, oh my gosh, you can actually straighten wheels and you can, true, even forks. We bent forks and we did all kinds of cool stuff.

Phil Meyer : 9:46

And so I kind of worked my way up through that place, beverly Cyclery, and continued to work there every summer all the way through college, which was in 1984, I think it was the last year I worked there. So I worked there from like 1979, actually now through 1979, through about 86, thoroughly enjoyed the work. He told the teacher repeatedly oh Phil was the best student you ever sent over, out of maybe 20 different students over the years, and I just I really enjoyed it. I had an act for it and I thought you know what I did really enjoy doing a bike shop. Maybe someday when I retire I mean that would be fun I'll open a bike shop, like just thinking like, oh yeah, it's like a recreational pastime. Of course it's much more involved than that, but I still always had the passion for bicycles.

Phil Meyer : 10:24

But I my parents both worked downtown. I had my scary moment of high school and I'm like I need to stay on this path and I need to go to school and the parents are willing to send me to college and even though I had a sketchy high school GPA, I managed to get into the University of Iowa, into the business program and I went there and I went there for five years, got a business degree and actually that's how I ended up in Seattle, because I met a huge group of friends that ended up moving to Seattle. And then I visited a couple of times. I was still working in bikes, a little bit on the side, but not at the shop, because I was working in Chicago basically doing a suit and tie job. And then after about five years of that my company got taken over and I ended up getting laid off. I looked for more work. I just didn't feel the passion for this type of work in Chicago. I visited Seattle twice and I thought you know what it is so cool out there. You get to actually live there and work at the same time and it's like you're on vacation.

Phil Meyer : 11:15

I had a brand new car at that time in 1992, saturn SL1 that I had payments on. So that scared me, but I had a place to move into with some roommates and some friends and I just up and loaded up all my stuff and mom helped pull a U-Haul and we drove all the way, I remember, with my cat too. We had a cat in my car all the way out to Seattle and then I tried to get a suit and tie job for a while, but that wasn't happening. I'm like you know what? I know how to work on bikes, so I sent out a cover lever.

Phil Meyer : 11:42

By that point, I had multiple letters of reference to, I think, 20 different bike shops. I got offers from two of them and I accepted an offer at Angle Lake Cyclery. That was the first place I landed on Pack Highway and 200 and eighth in SeaTac area actually 220. But what I liked about them is they had three locations at the time. They did kayaks, they had recumbents, they had all kinds of cool stuff. The manager was actually from Chicago and he's, like, you know, interviews me. He's like, basically I just show you a workbench and you're ready to go. I'm like, yeah, I don't need training, I'm ready to go, let's do this. So I started there and here I still am working on bikes.

Tom Butler: 12:16

When you started in Angle Lake. It sound like that was a different experience from Beverly, or was? Were they similar, or how would you describe that?

Phil Meyer : 12:24

Well, very different because at first I was doing full time at Angle and Beverly Cyclery in Chicago. I was just doing part time during the summer, so now I'm there through the seasons. And it was different because they had recumbents which I didn't know anything about. I learned how to speak and work recumbents at that shop and they did Klepper folding kayaks, which was also very interesting. It's a German boat that's harks back to pre-World War II with a balsam wood frame that all comes apart and separates and then you put it into two pieces and so it was just unique and interesting and I was going there with experience. So there was, I think, four or five mechanics and I was basically the second one in line and I quickly proved myself and you know, I just still really enjoyed the work. I enjoy the mechanical aspects of making a bike work and figuring out why it doesn't work and how to make it work better.

Tom Butler: 13:13

So can you talk a bit about the bike as a machine, about what's intriguing about it? Obviously, you've stuck it with it a long time.

Phil Meyer : 13:20

Yeah, you know, I think the bare essence of it to me is just, it's the human powered vehicle that it is. It's the most efficient vehicle and yet still relatively simple, and the basic technology has not changed in the last 100 plus years. So that pedals, crank chain if you're lucky, you got brakes. But it was exercise and it was also transportation and it was also a job and it was also recreation. So it gave me all of these things. I mean, I always enjoyed the kind of the working out part of it. I wanted to maintain a healthy lifestyle and I'm like well, you can, instead of going to a gym and just sweating on some treadmill or whatever, just ride your bicycle. And I remember the freedom back to that banana seat bike the first time I could ride a bike, it's like, oh my gosh, the whole neighborhood just opened up a whole new world to me. Now I could go to parks that were three miles away and the store that's two miles away and the pool that was a five mile drive to that park, and in Southside Chicago that while we had one hill and it was about 50 feet to 100 feet long, and of course you would choose different routes based on how steep of a climb you wanted, I mean compared to where I live now here in Seattle. But that was always a unique thing about me and I would just always enjoyed the bicycle and I just had a mechanical knack for it. And it's funny, I truly have a knack for that.

Phil Meyer : 14:35

But I just do not like working on cars. I'm pretty good home repair but I mean bicycles are definitely my thing Like I get it, you know, and that's still I get most of it. But a lot of the high tech stuff nowadays, like I'm, you know, I'm not the best electronic shifters. I don't enjoy overhauling suspension forks and shocks and that kind of stuff, but dialing and shifting and brakes and truing wheels and wheel building. I find wheel building is a magic art. Like you hold a pant, a handful of wire spokes and a rim that you could just bend like a pretzel, but yet if you put that together with a hub properly and tension it, I mean, man, that can take a tremendous amount of abuse just riding up and down. So I've just always been kind of fascinated with it and I have a good memory and and I like to recognize problems and problem solving and I'm like, oh, I've done that I've seen that I've made that mistake. I know how to fix it, so this is what I would do.

Tom Butler: 15:24

How would you describe the bike industry at the time? I think you said 91, maybe when you moved to Seattle.

Phil Meyer : 15:32

It was still booming. I mean, it's always been booming. Some people would almost say it's a recession proof industry. It's not that, but it was still quite dynamic. Mountain bikes were up and coming. I had my first mountain bike in Chicago in the mid 80s, a Schwinn Sierra. I was so proud of it. No suspension and cantilever brakes and all that kind of stuff, but mountain bikes were still the hot ticket to have Road bikes still quite popular. No disc brakes around.

Phil Meyer : 15:59

And again this shop did recumbents, and so that was quite interesting too. And we're not just recumbents that you could buy, but there was a local frame builder, jim Sorry, I forget his last name, but the brand was counterpoint bicycles and he was a French horn player in the Seattle Symphony. But he had his wife who did not like to ride on bicycles. She did not want to ride a regular tandem. So he figured out how he could make a recumbent tandem combo.

Phil Meyer : 16:25

So the front person is in a recumbent, the rear person, the captain, is upright in a conventional bicycle so he can keep an eye on her and see what's going on. Plus, the other unique thing about that particular bike is the front person's recumbent and its own separate freewheel and derailleur so she could coast, he could just pedal, so just it was a very unique bike. So just things like that is bringing also bicycles, is bringing more people to more exposure and just I don't know it's. You get a little snapshot of everyone's life when they stop in and they have a bike problem or a bike inquiry or they're searching for something, and you kind of have a feel for what it is they're doing with the bicycle.

Tom Butler: 17:00

I would imagine and maybe this is a wrong assumption that mountain biking would have been bigger out here than it would have been in Chicago.

Phil Meyer : 17:07

Absolutely there were. It was getting bigger. In our area, I mean where I lived in the south side of Chicago, if you went out mountain biking, it was basically just areas they would call the forest preserves, which was just kind of like out here would be Forestland or a large park, and so we had some trails but nothing like out here. Yeah, and also moving out here, mountain biking had to reacclimate, being a flatlander from the Midwest just to, oh my gosh, these hills and the climbs and the mud and all the other stuff. But the options and the opportunities were just so extensive. I mean, within and they still are within a half hour to an hour of Seattle, they've got 30 different options on places to go ride your mountain bike off trail. So and I was into that and I was also into that time I was probably more into road biking. So you've got an STP guy I see you were 2023. You rode last year I did 17 STPs with a group of friends in a row and then plus Ramrod and RSVP and the High Pass Challenge and pretty much every road ride around road down the Oregon coast a few times. So we were really into road biking.

Phil Meyer : 18:09

But the other thing about cycling is. It's also a. It brings friends together, it's a communal thing. So there are some people, kind of like the random ear crowd, who really are best served. Just they ride alone. They've got their head down, they ride 400 kilometers, they've got full funders, they've got generators, lights. It's just it's like a mission of getting point A to B where with most of the folks that the cycling through the years that I've done it was a group of friends that hey, we're going to go out, we're going to do this ride, we're going to meet, we're going to have fun, we're going to work out and then afterwards then we're going to go have a beer or talk about it, go have lunch, have a barbecue or something. It was a kind of a fun, kind of bonding experience and that's that's what I got of STP all the years is it was really the training with all your friends and the accomplishment and getting the work done, but then enjoying the after party as well.

Phil Meyer : 18:54

It doesn't get any easier as we get older. I mean it's fine to go a little slower, but still fine. But I find, as I'm almost 60, I'm 59. I still ride frequently and we have a mountain bike group that we meet here at my shop and we ride at Dash Point State Park once a week. But I'm just, I'm not on the road as much anymore, I just not as motivated.

Phil Meyer : 19:13

The other thing is I think it's probably been almost 30 years and when I moved out here in 93 and throughout that time it's really been quite cycling focused as far as activities go. So now I'm into other things. I'm into whitewater kayaking and I went skiing at Mission Ridge this past weekend just hiking a lot of other projects. It was just everything was always about bikes and where we go in biking and it can be quite time consuming. So I still enjoy it, I still enjoy the ride. But no, I don't know more STPs for me. I did after 17,. I can still see every turn, every bridge, every rest stop that I skip, every rest stop we go to. There's that hole my friend crashed in in 2001. I mean just, it's still a cool experience that many people out there on the road at one time. It's really quite impressive. But I just not my, not my wheelhouse anymore.

Tom Butler: 20:01

I can see that 17 is a lot. I don't think I'll make 17, but that is a lot, yeah. So at some point you decide to open your own bike shop. I'm thinking that it, when you opened it, was Phil's bike shop.

Phil Meyer : 20:15

It was. It was a little bit more of a tongue twister. I'm going to backtrack a little bit. So I did seven to eight I think it was seven or eight years at Angle Lake Cyclery. I enjoyed the work. I was definitely good at what I was doing, what I could just see kind of like back in high school I could see I'm on the wrong path. Like this isn't working out. I just could not spend my life at Angle Lake Cyclery, met some great friends there.

Phil Meyer : 20:37

The owner was a fantastic mechanic but during that time they actually sold their other two locations. One brother there was two brothers that owned it One brother moved away to Colorado. The brother that remained, his focus was really more in artistic expression and he had a college degree in marketing and Arts and that kind of stuff and he was a great mechanic. He was like a MacGyver like, with a drill press, a Dremel tool and a workbench. I mean the guy could make almost anything work, but unfortunately his work habits were not so great. So it was just. You know, I just didn't like the kind of the way the shop was run and tools getting lost and boxes open and stuff laying all over the place and then the manager was going to quit and I'm like I was in line. I mean I could be the manager, I could stay here, but I just like I just can't. I just can't do this. This isn't my place, so I have to find another place to work. So I'll allow them still in the bike business.

Phil Meyer : 21:29

So I sent out another batch of cover letters and such and this time I landed at the Velo bike shop up on Capitol Hill. What I like to again about this shop is they had two shops. It was a family run store, capital Hills vibrant, happening area. I was still young enough at that time where I still enjoyed going up to Capitol Hill. Nowadays I mean, I don't know if you want to go up there unless you're walking or taking the bus or something, but you don't want to drive up there. But anyway, I ended up working there for four years.

Phil Meyer : 21:57

During that time I had some customers that had followed me from Angle Lake all the way up to this shop on Capitol Hill and other people and other friends. And you know I still realized that I still really enjoy the work I'm running the service center. I saw the service center as the real kind of core hub of the bike shop, like anybody can put helmets and water bottles on the wall and, you know, sell trinkets and stuff. But when people come in and they've got a broken derailleur, they why does my brakes squeak or why is this not work? I mean, it's really the service department that seem to make the place run and I felt that that's what's happening and I'm the one at the center of it. I need to do something better.

Phil Meyer : 22:33

So I had two friends that I did SDP a number of times with who told me I need to do this and it's a scary thought to launch in your own business. And I'm still like, oh man, I don't know if I should do this. And they say you should do this. They offered to loan me $10,000 between the two of them and I'm like, oh my God. And it's like at that time I had no savings. I'm living paycheck, almost paycheck to paycheck, no insurance, young, thinking you'll never get hurt, all that kind of stuff. And I kind of talked about it with my family and even though they're none of them are out here, they're all back in the Chicago area. Another sister I told her about it and she was working had good funds at that time. She loaned me $9,000. So here I am, I've got $19,000. And I'm like, all right, well, if I'm going to do it, I'm just going to have to do this.

Phil Meyer : 23:14

So I scoured for locations and it's funny, when I was working at Angle Lake I was actually living in Ballard, so I was commuting from Ballard to Angle Lake Cycler, which is in SeaTac, but then I had moved up to Capitol Hill and then, fortunately, I was close to that location. Then I was still in Capitol Hill and possibly commuting somewhere else, and then I ended up meeting my partner, my current wife, who had a house in the Federal Way, auburn area, moved down here and realized like there's really a pocket in the South Sound where there just isn't any good bike shops. And I'm like you know I theory that you're not I'm going to open a bike shop down here, and even there's so few bike shops, even if it wasn't the best bike shop, I'm sure it would still make it, but of course I'm going to make a good bike shop. So we're going to make this work. So I scoured locations and I came up with this spot in Federal Way, and why I liked this area is there was a brand new Fred Meyer being put in. Right across the street. There was an Albertsons kitty corner. To that, there was a Safeway and then there was a grocery store about a mile away.

Phil Meyer : 24:11

What we found out was a grocery store just opening in February of 2000 called Winco Foods, and at the time my wife was a server at a restaurant. Again, she didn't have insurance, neither did I, and she sees this Winco Foods and she's like well, maybe I should just think about getting a part time job there, because, like we need benefits. Like well, hey, if you can, that's great. You're going to work two jobs. I got no time for this because I've picked out this location and you launch into a new business entirely. So, anyway, she started working there two jobs, I went full on it fills South Side.

Phil Meyer : 24:41

Cyclary was my tongue twister because I wanted people to see my name in the book, because people know me as a bike mechanic. So when I'm going to know it's Phil, I want him to know it was on the South Side, not like Greg's Green Lake or Mot Lake or something like that. And then everyone just threw around cyclary, like word check still doesn't like the word cyclary, but you know it's out there. So so I went with Phil's South Side Cyclary. The tongue twister was at that location for 15 years, open in February of 2000. And things went well.

Phil Meyer : 25:08

Maybe the rent was super high. I was scared, especially in the wintertime. I was several times I thought I have to get another job or something else has got to happen here. But then I realized I don't have time for another job. And what am I going to do for another job? I mean work midnight. I mean just I just have to dedicate myself to the bike shop. So it was me, and typically two to four employees A lot of times just me and you know, just struggling and keeping it going and balancing work life with home life and recreation life, but working seven days a week for the first eight years until finally I started taking Sundays off and then it was six days a week and then now I'm actually down to five because I'm taking off Sundays and Mondays.

Phil Meyer : 25:48

But after 15 years at that location I realized the rent was going up of course that was my third lease and that the neighborhood over there just too many businesses jammed in food service wise, the parking lot was a mess, just wasn't a great neighborhood. So I customer that was a realtor and I told him about my search. He pointed out a few locations and the one location he pointed out is right by Decatur High School. There's this collection of three kind of small buildings and he's like it was a realtor. But the guy is just, he just absolutely wants to get somebody in there. And I go look at it and I'm like I don't know, it just doesn't seem right. But the guy, I guess, made me an offer I just couldn't refuse. And here I am I've been here since 2015 and center of Federal Way.

Phil Meyer : 26:27

But what I really like about it in which I realized I should have known 15 years ago is that a bike shop does not have to be near all these busy, busy places. As for one thing, if you're going to ride a bike or test ride a bike, you really don't want to be in the middle of a busy, busy place. You want to be more off in the central neighborhood or something. Plus, a bike shop is a destination store. It's not just an impulse store like an ice cream cone You're not just walking along or coffee like oh hey, there's a Starbucks, let's get coffee, or there's an ice cream. It's like no, you have a broken bicycle and you need to find a tire or tube, a spoke or whatever. So you go to the bike shop and that's it. And that's the other thing that's changed dramatically in the market is most of the years when I was working in bike shops, if you wanted any of these items you had to go through a bike shop because that was the only place to get it. That was the only place you had distribution for parts, where nowadays the bike shop is there as a service hub and a knowledge hub, but there's almost any single part you want available anywhere on the internet. So the market has changed quite a bit. Margin's have changed quite a bit and that's the other thing that changed with my new bike shop. It was right before COVID times when things were just absolutely crazy during COVID.

Phil Meyer : 27:28

But it's really challenging to play this game of selling brand new bicycles as a small independent retailer. Trax, specialized, norco, raleigh all the big companies they will gladly get you bikes and they will gladly give you 50 bikes with dating, which means, okay, it's January, I'll give you 50 bikes, but by July 1st you've got to pay for all of them and then by July 1st they're coming out with their next batch of bikes and then meantime I still have 20 of those other ones left. You spent half that money. It's really, it's a juggle. It's a juggle and it's a struggle. And then you've only got 30 bikes on the floor.

Phil Meyer : 28:02

Customers come in, they describe this beautiful dream bike that they want and you don't have one. That looks like that. You pull out the catalog, you go through all the pictures and you talk about this and that and I go I like that one, can I test ride it? And then you can't get it for a test ride. As an owner of a bike shop, you just have to buy that bike. Hope they want it. So it was just. I just couldn't take it anymore. It was just too much of a struggle, too time consuming. And I remember back in the old days at Angle Lake Cyclery, we did use bikes, people did trade ins, people would upgrade their bikes. And what got me to that is I started spying and selling collectible antique books, because my mom does that, my brother does that in as a side business.

Phil Meyer : 28:35

Think about people like books. People still like a hard copy book, a tactile experience of actually touching and feeling a book. But you can find some really neat, cool books Like think of Gone with the Wind, first Edition with a dust jacket, is probably worth $5,000 to $10,000. Well, if you could find that someplace for 10 bucks, I mean that's awesome. Of course you don't find that, but it's the search, it's the hunt. I've always been interested in knowledge and trivia and that kind of stuff.

Phil Meyer : 28:58

So I'm pursuing books and I thought about, like why am I not selling used bicycles? Because I'm researching books, because I don't know about the publisher and the publication date and is this the first edition and the condition of them and all that. And I'm like I don't know everything about bikes, but I know a lot about bikes and I can just look at bikes and I can just buy them, fix them up and resell them. And I've been doing that since a year before COVID, so since 1990, I mean 19, I think and that's been fantastic. I wish I did that way earlier. It's a much better business, it's a better margin. Right now I still have a dozen bikes to work on and to fix.

Phil Meyer : 29:37

Or this was the most difficult time for people that work in the big full retail bike shops. Christmas is over, the season hasn't started yet, so now what do you do? It's time to clean the shop. Let's go reorganize the helmets, let's dust down the water bottles, let's move the road bikes into that corner and let's put the kids' bikes in this corner. And there's just nothing happening. So with these bikes I'm busy.

Phil Meyer : 29:57

The challenge is how do you find used bikes? I've got a couple of people that are kind of pickers, that bring them to me and that look for them. I've got a father-in-law that's retired. He just loves scouring through Craigslist and offer up and all that stuff, and of course I post on my website. But then the other challenge to this is the sketchy people that start showing up with you know, like a carbon fiber Cervelo with look, clipless pedals, a GPS and a heart rate monitor. And this person looks like they've been living outside for a while, you know, and you're like, where'd you get this bike? Oh, it's from my uncle and you know they'll sell it cheap, but you don't want any part of that.

Phil Meyer : 30:27

So you try to discourage as much of that as possible. I've got stories about recovering stolen bikes, having bikes stolen all kinds of bad things and the bottom line is the police are far too busy with other things, so nobody really cares about the whole stolen bike market. So I do what I can to limit that kind of stuff. But I truly enjoy the the use bike aspect and again it's the mechanical part of it looking at the bike and figuring out what this bike needs, what I can pay for it, what I can sell for it, all that kind of stuff. So I really enjoy that, that aspect of the work. It's really given me a second life in the bike business. Let's say, here in my almost a February in my 23rd year, right now getting ready for 24th.

Tom Butler: 31:04

That's so cool. I'm wondering if, along the way, if you ever went back to Beverly bike shop and said, hey, here's what you inspired you know, I never did go back in.

Phil Meyer : 31:14

I had a couple of emails over the years. I was there last summer and I still have one sister that lives in that neighborhood. It's the neighborhoods called Beverly. It's in the city of Chicago, far south side, and I went to her house to do some kind of handyman work for her and there it is, jim's. What used to be Jim's, it was Jim's Beverly cyclary and it's still there. It's just called Beverly cyclary but now it's for sale. But it's kind of cool. The old sign is still there.

Phil Meyer : 31:40

I certainly, you know, felt some tugs in my heartstrings looking at it. And about five years ago a guy that was working with me he has his wife Liz and all sip, which is a Southern suburb he was down in that neighborhood and he actually went into the bike shop he was working for me at that time and he's. He went in and talked to them and like, oh, I know Phil, and they actually still knew about me. So I thought that was cool. Now I never went back in and read, you know, talk to the owners again and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it definitely just changed my pathway. It's funny how people believe in fate or destiny or whatever. I don't. I mean, life is a matter of circumstance and situations and what you make out of it. But yeah, a lot of stuff has happened since then and the bicycle has certainly brought me a lot of happiness and, you know, overall comfort in my work. I certainly could have made a lot more money, I think, in the business world and done a lot more things, but you know what I'm happy, I'm successful.

Phil Meyer : 32:31

Nowadays I get vacations when I want that type of thing. That's something when you open your own business. It's like oh, you're going to open your own business, you can do what you want. Well, that's true, but you also don't have any paid vacations. You don't have any paid benefits, you know no healthcare. You can't call in sick, you have to do the computers, the garbage, the plumbing, the tech work, the ordering, the customer service, the main. I mean everything you know. So you have to wear all these hats and it's.

Phil Meyer : 32:57

It's quite a challenge to keep it going, but I thoroughly enjoy it and I've gotten to the point now where, like I'm about to go on a vacation for two weeks, I don't have any employees right now. I'm just going to put a sign up on the door and gone for two weeks. I'll be back at this date. Well, while I'm gone I'm probably going to lose 2000 to $3,000, based on rent and sales. But you know what? Life is too short.

Phil Meyer : 33:19

I'm not going to lay in bed on my dying days and think, oh, it was so great that I made that extra money, instead of going and having a fun experience and going on a vacation. I mean, I work so I can live, so I can enjoy all his experiences. I don't live to work. Some people, like I, remember the original owner of Angle Lake Cyclery, the father of the patriarch. He had five or six different bike shops, tremendously successful, but still had a rusted out van with a door that didn't close all the way and have a bungee strap on it, probably had $2 million in the bank when he passed. It's like I just don't want to live. You know that doesn't make me happy. What makes me happy is being comfortable, having experiences and then going out and enjoying them.

Tom Butler: 33:57

So it seems like there's like different worlds of bicycling. You know, like you talked about mountain biking and that's quite different from road biking. There's, you know, the world of bikes for kids, for young kids. Do you kind of see that in your shop Is that it's not just one shop? It's like you're there's different worlds that you're feeding absolutely the cut.

Phil Meyer : 34:21

Each customer is unique and what they're seeking and what you can do to help them have been involved in experiences from. You know a five year old child with their very first bike coming in with grandpa and grandma and I mean that's very exciting and school is fun experience and I get to be there for that and then they leave. So I got a snapshot of it, snapshot of that whole experience, and at least I'm also not there when the kid falls off the bike or it's time to take it away and then they start crying and those types of things. So that there's one experience. Another one a memorable customer had, frank, he was the oldest guy that I ever sold a brand new bike to for himself. He was eighty three years old, long time retired. He's been a machine is. His hearing was bad because he was in the navy and there was a boiler explosion, said one year. That didn't work. His wife had died five years previously. But he was just an active guy. So he's like what am I gonna do? I'm like ride the bike. So you took up cycling. He took up playing the violence. You decided you want to play the violin. But he came in and he bought a bike for me and it's what we call comfort bike, so it's a mountain bike designed to ride in the city. But he, that's what made him happy and just I would see him come in and come in every six months and he would want to know you, like guys of that age like I, need to grease the bearings and we need to loop the chain, even if you didn't really need it, I would tell him why do I do? You know, he just made him feel better piece of mind, that type of thing. So there's another type of customer. Then I also have young customers that are just real go getters in the mountain bike world, like people that go up to whistler and they're launching off the sides of buildings and crazy stuff like that. Then distance road cyclists I've been involved in helping people to cross country tracks, had lots of customers that are racers. What's the people riding down the organ coast all the way down to california?

Phil Meyer : 36:01

Add a customer also another experience where he got into the end during cycling, not brandy nearing like down here. He did do some of that, but he decided he's gonna do the. I did a sport, which is the idea to ride, course, but you can do it Either by foot and skis on a bicycle just has to be human power, so you don't have dogs. And that race still goes on today. He went it's twelve hundred miles or something like that, so that was quite unique trying to build up a bike for that experience. That was before fat tire bikes and all that. He did make it, I think, six hundred miles before he bailed out.

Phil Meyer : 36:34

But you know just all these different people, all these different experiences. Lately, last two years, I met a woman From to coma, ninety two years old, carol call a puss, has been there around on that neighborhood forever who has an adult trike. And she calls me on the phone and she's like I got this adult trike and it's just the trailer doesn't work, it's made in china, these china stuff just doesn't work. And I'm like well, I don't know, you bring on it. So she brings it in, like, is it you can be able to get it here? She's like oh yeah, she's a problem solver, like a lot of us have been over the years, specially of person of that age, and she has a special bike rack in the back of her vehicle where there's a little hoist that lifts the front wheel and then there's another little hoist that she just has to pick up the back and set it on this wheel holder and she can drive around with a trike and it just gives her Mental clarity, gives her exercise, it gives her purpose to her day where she goes out and rides around on it. So seeing that type of inspiration on bikes has been, you know, it's really fun and so I enjoy that.

Phil Meyer : 37:30

One of the things that's lately has come up that it's just different for me, as the whole world of now we're into electric bikes. That seems to be kind of the future. I mean people certainly gravitate towards them. They are quite popular to number of shops. I am not an electric bike shop, not entirely against them, my people in my family on them, my friends that have them, I ride with friends that have them but I just don't work on them. It's kind of a different liability. It's kind of a different world. It's immobility versus All the.

Phil Meyer : 37:59

I think back to all the days that you know I wanted exercise and I wanted mobility and all the other things, and you can still do that with electric bike. What is just a whole different world. And plus, like I said, I don't really enjoy the suspension technology similar idea with electric bikes and we know the wiring and the motor and the battery, just all that stuff. Just Totally different.

Phil Meyer : 38:19

So, yes, but one of the things that makes a bike shop interesting is each customer is unique and different and you have to kind of gauge what they're after, try to assess that and do all this within two minutes. You know I love to talk to a person live in person, with the bicycle there when I have that bike there, and I can really figure stuff out within two minutes on the phone and have a Long description of a problem, that something that's been annoying them forever, and it could be that it could be that, like, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, you have to go through all this. Just just bring me the bike and like, whether it's me or another bike shop, please just show up in person and let's just look at it, talk about it, give you an accurate estimate right off the bat, then you can decide what you want to do from there.

Phil Meyer : 38:59

So I still, I still enjoy that aspect of the job.

Tom Butler: 39:02

Now are there some trends that you see in bike technology, whether it's frame materials or derailers or whatever. They are intriguing to you.

Phil Meyer : 39:13

Definitely just increased range of the gear ratio. We will call it so that's. You know we have when we're young, when the first 10 speed bikes came out, like old people still call it all. It's a 10 speed like, just like an old twin varsity, yet Two sprockets in front, five in the back, when nowadays modern mountain bikes, gravel bikes, which are quite popular bikes, are all typically 11 or 12 speeds and it's just one sprocket in the front and then all the gears are in the back. So actually that really helps things quite a bit, not so much for mechanics but for the cyclists in general.

Phil Meyer : 39:49

Specially as a novice cyclist, I've had Hours and hours and hours explaining to people how to shift a bike that has a front derailleur, so it could be quite problematic, especially the older road bikes. We had three rings in the front, maybe nine in the back, eight in the back when you back off the tension. The best I can get through to people as if they've ever driven a manual transmission car. So if you drive a stick shift car manual. When you're shifting from second to third, third to fourth, whatever you're shifting from, you engage the clutch, you take off the gas. The last thing you want to do is hit the gas. Well, a lot of people are shifting because they're chasing their buddy up front or they're Trying to get up this hill, so they're pedaling super fast. They shift in the moment that front derailleur shifts, that crank goes twice as fast as the chain is going. It doesn't match up. Boom chain falls off their shirts a mechanical problem? Sometimes it is mechanical problem, but usually it's what we call operator error. So that has helped a lot getting rid of the front derailleur. It's been a tremendous improvement.

Phil Meyer : 40:44

The technology and mountain bikes just been overwhelming every year with the better shocks on them, the shifting capabilities that they have, the tubeless tires, the size of the tires all those things have really increase the range of mountain biking and just made it a lot more fun and comfortable. Like I mean I, lots of people go. We didn't have that. Yeah, that's fine. When you got your teeth rattled, you bounced along like crazy. It was very difficult to navigate difficult terrain, especially at speed, with bikes that we had in the past, compared to the bikes that we have now. So and in watching that technology come through, it's always at the highest end, like I know. I know, I know this guy's got a bike that cost eight thousand dollars and it's like they're mad about it. So it's not your money. If they can afford eight thousand dollars and their family is being fed, they do the mortgage like who cares, let them go buy it. But those bikes have the newest technology that trickles down. So A ten year old eight thousand dollar bike we don't know days, that's only two thousand dollars.

Phil Meyer : 41:42

The other interesting thing about Cycling in general like we talked about ten speeds and that's was the rage when I was in bike shops way back when. So those five years in the back that I remember when it went to six, then I remember when it went to seven, then it went to eight and I kept like by the time I got to my car, how many years are they gonna put back there? This is just, this is just way too much is just over done it. And now we're up to twelve and with each of these advancements my parts walls advancing, as well as different chain for seven speed, nine speed, ten speed, eleven speed, twelve speed. They don't work, they're not in a compatible because the range and the tolerance on them is different. But you know, you either accept it and Learn to embrace the technology and learn how to be proficient at it or you just like. It's just not for me, I'm just an old fart like, but I still enjoy it. I still enjoy the technical aspects.

Phil Meyer : 42:29

The other thing is the breaking. Technology obviously is way better. Nowadays almost every bike that's worth more than four, five hundred bucks has disk breaks, which are relatively easy if it's a cable this break. But then now we, once we get up to eight hundred thousand, hydraulic this break. So Break lever has fluid in it. Now you're pumping fluid into the master cylinder is compressing the caliper in the back maybe have Double caliper, even a quad caliper. Just lots of variables on that. So that's been quite the challenge.

Phil Meyer : 42:57

But, again, something you have to learn, you have to do it, and that's only with bike shop like. We don't have any teaching us the stuff. Thank goodness nowadays we do have you to. So, just like everybody else, like if I have issues, like when we first started this podcast, I couldn't get the volume to work, so I went to Google and so I can. I get my chromecast work, so, sure enough, figure out how to go to settings and do it whenever. So a lot of that is still relevant. Invite shops days. Man, how do we figure this stuff out? Or thirty years ago it was like if there wasn't something in the shop we knew how to fix that, then that was a problem what are some essential maintenance tips that every cyclist should know?

Phil Meyer : 43:30

the question, the absolute, essential, when I see a lot even to this day that people do not do. Number one thing relatively easy Put air in your tires. People, oh my goodness, nobody seems to be aware that once a tires inflated they just think well, I pumped it up, unless it has a hole in it, should be fine. Well, inside of most tires there's an inner tube. There are quite a few that are too less nowadays. Let's think about an inner tube. And then again another analogy let's think about a birthday party. We got balloons hanging on the wall, so had a nice party. The balloons are on the wall. That was saturday. Now it's sunday. The balloons are still there. By monday these balloons are starting to shrivel. By the following saturday the balloons are down to half size. Week after that there's nothing left.

Phil Meyer : 44:12

Inside your tire is a balloon. Basically is the inner tube and it's a porous rubber material. It does not hold pressure entirely for ever, just pressure slowly seeps out. It loses air pressure over time. So the narrow the tire, the higher pressure required, like sdp. If you're not running your tire max pressure ninety to a hundred man you're losing a lot of efficiency and you're also damaging, could possibly damage the room if you had a hole or something like that. But I just remember, even before I worked in a bike shop riding along on a bike, bouncing along, hitting a bump, and you can feel that tire go through the hole and then actually bang into the ground and it was the room. Hitting the ground now is oh my gosh, I don't have enough air in my tires. So if people just actually put enough air in the tires, I say, once a month, check them, road bike, once a week, you know, I mean every time I leave the garage you should just pinch your tire and make sure you've got enough air. So that that's an easy one. I mean everybody should be able to do that. And then the other easy one lubricate your chain doesn't have to be coated. Like really thick and like old timers, like even older than us, they would use three in one oil or household oil or Something really thick and viscous. That's not good either, even if it's WD-40. That's fine. I mean, just put something on there so we lube the chain and then wipe off the excess, which also seems counterintuitive, because I kind of put a little bit of lube on the entire chain. Let's sit for a minute, take a good rag and just pinch that chain and just pedal it right on through there. That cleans the chain, lubes it all up at the same time makes it super awesome.

Phil Meyer : 45:40

Back to a quick STP story, like when you ride STP. The other thing I enjoyed about it being a bicycle person, or you know, you call him a bike net. There's just every type of bicycle imaginable out there and then they're also every type of well poorly maintained bicycle out there as well. Like you ride and buy somebody, you can just hear their bike. Oh Like, oh, my god, how can you listen to that 10 hours a day all the way to Portland's? Like you could just pee on that bike. It would sound better than it does now, my goodness.

Phil Meyer : 46:06

So just just basic maintenance like that. I'm not like anal retentive, like it has to be absolutely immaculate. We'll do a mountain bike ride and put the bike away dirty, but before you go out again you better, you know, at least lube the chain, wipe off the rims if it's a rim rim, dry brake. So mountain bike could be even better if you kind of use a hose, but very lightly hose it, not like the pros do with a pressure washer and just hose the heck out of it. You know just kind of light and brush it all down. But number one and two things air in the tires, lube in the chain.

Tom Butler: 46:34

Do you see some common mistakes or misconceptions about bike maintenance that show up a lot?

Phil Meyer : 46:42

I Mean just that that big bikes need maintenance, just in general. I mean chains wear out, sprockets wear out, cables stretch, things happen. People like, well, I just got this bike you know it's was a thousand dollar bike. I mean I can't believe the stuff go. It was, everything has been fine. So it's like where everything was fine. It's like, well, that's how problems happen. You know, like your car was fine too, until that one day when it started making that noise. You know stuff happens so and again it's problem-solving. So it's trying to understand in their world, like, what's going on with this bike? What are their expectations of the bike? That's.

Phil Meyer : 47:15

The other thing too is I have to learn not to project my maintenance Expectations on to all of my customers. If they ask or inquire, then I can certainly point advice. But if they just show up with a really poorly maintained bike and looks horrible, I mean you try to not and they'll be like, well, the shifting doesn't seem work. Well, I mean, if you looked at it, oh my god, the chain is rusty. Look at this cable. If you push it it feels like I need a Channel locks to move the lever because there's so much resistance in the cable and people just get used to stuff, you know. I mean, like on a road bike. I like it to be nice and clean when it's done.

Phil Meyer : 47:47

I'm working on a road bike. I want to replace the handlebar tape because I'm like, well, look at this tape, it's all ripped and shredded and fallen off. No, I think I'm upselling, like, yeah, we should get it. Oh, I don't need that, looks fine. I'm like, okay. Okay, I don't know how you can look at that all day long, but so you just have to.

Phil Meyer : 48:00

It's again just trying to read, read the room, right. You just have to understand what they're asking for and try to either offer solution or Tell them what it takes to do it. And you know I certainly don't have every customer comes in, take my solutions and my advice, but most of them do, and if they want their bike to work, I mean I have a very good success rate. I very few bikes that are coming back because I really like to. I like to get it done Right. One of my biggest fears and heart palpitation when I see a car pull up of a bike that I just did some big job on, like Two days ago or something, and they're coming back with the bike and I'm like, oh my gosh, what did I do? Today is the pedal tight and I forget to set this or that, or and sometimes it's a major problem, but not typically so where do you think the future of cycling is?

Tom Butler: 48:40

had a link heading both in terms of technology and just the Cycling community?

Phil Meyer : 48:46

e-bikes are the future. It does bring more people into cycling, but everybody, you know I mean it's Instead of bikes have always been more about performance, like this one's lighter, easier to pedal, this or that. Where the e-bikes seem like it's just this has more power, has more range, that type of stuff seems like it's Really the I think, 50% of the market nowadays. Maybe, I don't know, maybe 30, maybe not 50%. That's not fair 30% at least. But there are still always going to be people out there pedaling, like especially young people and kids Having different size bikes. I mean, the technology between the chains and the brakes and the shifters is still basically the same. I think it's gonna continue that way for a long time.

Tom Butler: 49:29

Anything new for Phil's bike shop in 2024? What would you have? Upcoming? No, I guess.

Phil Meyer : 49:36

What's upcoming is Phil's bike shop will be in its 24th year and then the 25th year, it's time for a new lease, and then I'm like I'm at that age now. Like you know, I have friends that are retired and I'm the youngest of seven, as I said in my family, so a couple of siblings are retired. So now I'm finally like, oh, young, come to the station. Wow, how long am I gonna do this? I don't know. It's like I really gonna keep doing this. So I still thoroughly enjoy the mechanical aspect of it and working on bikes, but the whole retail hours and, oh you know, and doing retail and Communicating with people is not always the most fun. I mean, it's great when it, when it works, when I like them, they like me, we understand each other, but you know it doesn't always work for anybody anywhere, whether it's Safeway or the bike shop or your auto repair or whatever. So it's not always easy to run a retail business with all of these customers. So I'm just guess I'm just gonna be doing more of the same, for for now, just keep rolling with my used bike inventory. I basically actually I was thinking this morning is like I've already got like four vacations planned out. So I'm like, oh, I'm gonna miss a lot of time from work, so, but then every time I take a vacation, then I come back with renewed motivation like, all right, I need to work, I got to make some more money, we got it, we got to make this happen. So it's it's. You know, I still enjoy coming to work every day. I still enjoy working on the bikes.

Phil Meyer : 50:51

Another thing that we haven't discussed. I've been waiting for it to come up. I know we're almost done, but this is an important part of my cycling life is, throughout all the years I have, occasionally, in the summertime, have somebody come in and they're like I just need a bike. It doesn't need to be that good, it needs to be cheap. I'm only gonna use it for a week because I'm all. I'm going out to the desert, I'm going out to this thing called burning man. I'm like burning man, what's that? That sounds kind of wacky. So I had a few customers that did that and then I, so it was on my radar. Then I had a local customer 15 years ago.

Phil Meyer : 51:22

What I, you know, determine a bike. Not, the guy owns 10 bikes, he's a triathlete, he's a former Marine, former cop. Just go, go go all the time. And he comes in and he's got a burning man bike. And a burning man bike is basically just a cheaper, typically a mountain bike. Again, you're taking it out to a hostile desert environment, you're not gonna bring you a nice fancy bike. And he's like I just need this tune up for bring. I'm like, oh, you go to burning man.

Phil Meyer : 51:42

I've always considered burning man. It's kind of been on my radar. And he's like well, you, you should come, you should just come to our camp, you should join us. And I thought about it. I'm like, well, I'm like, bam, here's an imitation. Like, well, maybe I could, yeah, I don't know. So I didn't do anything the first year. Then he I still see him with his road bikes and stuff. And then the next year rolls around and again we have this discussion about burning man and it's like and I told him is like you know what? This year I'm gonna go to burning man. That was in 2013.

Phil Meyer : 52:08

And so I'm married and I had the discussion with my wife, you know, gently, I've like well, honey, this thing has come up, it's called burning man. There's a huge bike culture there and I just feel like I need to go see it. I need, I need to go down there, I need to find out what this is all about. So if you want to come, that's awesome, but basically I'm going without you and she's like no, I want to go. So she, she came with me. Fortunately, she loves it and we've been going back to burning man every year since. So I'm a burner, you would call it. So up on this side of the world there's basically it's like a different world when you go to burning man, which is in the northeast corner of Nevada, about 100 miles from Reno, near Gerlach and Empire, out in the Black Rock desert.

Phil Meyer : 52:47

And burning man is a lot of things to a lot of people, but what it really is is a community of people that just come together and make this experience happen. It's not a festival where there's bands set up or anything set up. The whole event happens because of the participants that show up that make it happen. So if you come to burning man and you do it right, you're bringing a skill or you're bringing a gift. So a lot of camps will make food, they'll make chainsaw margaritas, or they have a clothing boutique, or they have free Sunblock or whatever, and I'm like well, what am I gonna do at burning man, the camp that I go to? It's called Camp Sweaty Betty and what they do is they have a misting parlor. So they have a 20 by 20 actually 10 by 20 Costco like kind of a pop-up tent. You would park your spare car under in the driveway and they bring out fans, they bring out a pump, they bring water and you know the desert's 105 degrees. So they have like a little misting parlors. You walk through there and you go like, huh, I'm getting misted. So I thought, well, I don't know about this misting parlor, what am I gonna do there? Well, I work in bikes, so I guess I've heard bringing that's quite popular with bikes. So this period of time there's 80,000 people and there's 65,000 bicycles at burning man within this period. So it is actually, during that time, the largest per capita Bike usage of any city in the world for that period of time. And so it is quite difficult.

Phil Meyer : 54:01

Environments a dried lake bed, they call it the playa. So under good conditions it's just hard and relatively smooth. But dust can come up and this dust is like particulate matter. You mix between Drywall dust and sand and talcum powder and it is very invasive, it's acidic. So if it sits anything metal for any period of time, it will corrode things. It just gets all nasty.

Phil Meyer : 54:23

I tell people like everything man-made, like products and items that you bring to burning man come back all screwed up. But you as a person, if you do it properly, you go to bring man and you come back improved and you're a better person. So anyway, the first year I'm like well, I can kind of fix bikes. I mean I can't fix bikes. So I decided I'm gonna do that. And they're like oh yeah, that would be useful, you'll be, you'll be really popular.

Phil Meyer : 54:44

So I actually bought a trailer with me and I brought a work stand and a bunch of tools and parts, now decided I'm just gonna go ride around with my bike and I'm just gonna pull up and I'm gonna fix people's bikes. So I did that and I probably fixed 20 bikes and it was amazing and people couldn't like I'd see someone pulled over. I mean I'm a bike guy. It's pretty obvious to see when somebody has a problem. Oh, that guy's holding his derailleur, it's broken, that guy has a flat. So I fixed all these types of things. It was really rewarding, it was really enriching and I decided you know what? What I really need to do is if I'm to fix bikes Kind of like it fills bike shop they just need to come to me. So I invested in a whole 20 by 20 shade structure. I got a big roof rack for my van. Extra work stand, another person to help me.

Phil Meyer : 55:26

I bring down a ton of my used parts bearings, tires, pedals, chains, tubes, cranks, handlebars, grips, seats, everything, lubricant and set up a bike shop Betty's bike shop, because I'm at Camp sweaty Betty, so I'm not Phil. There. People will be like are you Phil? The other thing is when you're at Burning man, typically you get given a name. You know it's like your, your burner name, and you can't just be like, oh, I'm superstar, you can't pick your own name. So your friends pick your name and usually did something stupid or something really awesome. So the people my camp, after year one they decide my name is wheels, like, oh well, that's a good name because I keep people rolling. So when I go to Burning man I'm a different person, I'm wheels. So during that time I spend about 35 hours. I have hours at the shop, just like I do here, but they're shorter and we typically fix anywhere from 300 to 500 bicycles at Burning man. So on this side of the world I'm quite popular people like me here I know how to fix bikes and Fred away that come in. They appreciate me. But at Burning man I am a superstar like. I'm like rock star, superman status.

Phil Meyer : 56:33

If you do not have a bicycle it's 10 square miles. If you don't have a bicycle you're in major trouble. And again there are people they they have a bicycle but they don't do any maintenance to it once they come home from the previous Burning man experience. So the bike is all rot, tires are rotted, the chain is beat up and well, it worked. It's funny. They think about their outfits and their lights and their coolers and all the real cool clothes and Other stuff.

Phil Meyer : 56:55

And a bicycle is like oh well, I have one kind of like, just an item that you have. Well, then they show up with it and if it doesn't work, major problem. There are a few other bike camps but I think I'm the only one that actually brings parts. So half of my load down there is all bike stuff for other people. Because my bike no problem, because I show up prepared. My wife's bike no problem because we do maintenance on it. But so that is really that the most rewarding and rich thing that I do in the cycling industry. Now it's going to Burning man and fixing bikes, so it's just really truly special, the meeting of people like I have a book and I have people sign it, typically people from 20 to 30 different countries, 30 different states all over the world, and everyone just has a unique shared love of just this whole experience and Mostly.

Tom Butler: 57:39

I mean, you know.

Phil Meyer : 57:40

I said, on this side of the world, maybe 60% of the people I meet are like people right off the bat. I think this person's pretty cool, I'd like to meet them where I hate to say it, but you know, 40% I just I really don't even want to talk to them. Was it Burning man? I think it's like 90% positive people, because if you've made the effort to get down there and make this thing happen, there's something special about you within that you're able to overcome, solve problems. Oh, I hear my front door going, so okay.

Phil Meyer : 58:04

I hate to end it on that, but I did want to get into a pretty hold on one second. I'm just gonna tell him I'll be right there. Right there, anyone All right, tom, why I have to open my shop? That got my first customer here banging on the door.

Tom Butler: 58:17

Well, that's a stick.

Phil Meyer : 58:19

Yeah, and that I was just gonna say one of things. I've also done quite a bit of charity work with. You mentioned bikes for kids. There's a charity down here and Marine View Presbyterian Church. We do bikes for kids. It's for you start with four old guys. Now it's 20 old guys. They have a bike shop. I help them maintain bikes. I work at JBLM at Christmas time for the Santa's Castle. Give them 20 to 30 bikes. I've done some free bike work here in the city for low-income people, but it's still. There's just something really special about Burning man. So all you people out there, if you want a magical world experience, you need to go do it.

Tom Butler: 58:51

Well, it sounds like a definitely a lifetime experience, and I think people are certainly fortunate to have you there I'm, I know I bet you've saved Burning man for for people.

Phil Meyer : 59:02

Exactly, and that's. That's exactly the same. People say, oh my god, you saved my burn, thank you. And then I get big hugs and then then they want to give you a gift.

Phil Meyer : 59:10

The other thing I didn't mention about Burning man is it's a gifting society. So nothing, there's no charge for this. It's not like, hey, if you give me a beer, I'll fix your bike. I'm just there, I fix bikes. I hope that you're gonna go out and spread love and do things for other people as well. Now you can't just show up and be a jerk and say, hey, fix my bike. I mean, you know it's, it's a common. You know it's like going to your neighbor's house and asking for help or asking to borrow a tool, so you're not going to charge for it. But it takes common respect and and love and appreciation. So, yes, I've heard hundreds of times you have saved my burns and and I really appreciate that. And sometimes it's really stressful and I think, why am I working so hard here? But you know what I? I get as much out of it as they do, so it's really a rewarding experience.

Tom Butler: 59:49

Well, thank you so much for your time, phil, and I'll let you go get, take care of your customer.

Phil Meyer : 59:54

All right, tom, I got a customer, I got a live one. I gotta at least make a few dollars today so I can get out, make money, so I can get back to burning man.

Tom Butler: 1:00:00

Sounds good.

Phil Meyer : 1:00:01

You know you people go out, go out and look up burning man online. There's a tremendous number of videos and Information and it's not for everybody, but it's something that should be investigated.

Tom Butler: 1:00:11

Sounds good, peace out, take care, bye now. Am I the only one who is really surprised by phil mentioning tire pressure as the first thing that came to his mind when I asked about Maintenance that people need to do? I don't know anyone that doesn't think about their tire pressure before riding. But, like I mentioned in the interview, I am part of a particular cycling world. Phil mentioned the percentage of e-bikes making up sales in the us, so I'm not sure if that's the case, but I think that's the case. I'm part of a particular cycling world. Phil mentioned the percentage of e-bikes making up sales in the us, so I thought I would look into that a bit.

Tom Butler: 1:00:46

I pulled up a site called statista that I will link in the show notes. I'm not familiar with the site, but it looked reliable. They reported that in 2019, e-bikes made up less than 1% of the market, but by 2022 that had risen to 4%, so it is still a small piece of total bike sales. They also commented that the us e-bike market is not as developed as it is in Europe. I find it interesting that it sounds like phil is getting a different perception of e-bike sales. I would like to hear from you stories about your favorite bike shop or bike mechanic, while you like them, how they've impressed you. You can find my email and podcast instagram in the show notes. I hope, if you're like me and need a good bike mechanic, that you have found one and they have kept you rolling along. Good luck with all your rides, whether they be cold or warm, and remember age is just a gear change.