Why Bellingham is a Bike Friendly City

Tom Butler: 0:04

This is the Cycling Number 60 Podcast, season 2, episode 17. Why Bellingham is a bike-friendly city. I'm your host, tom Butler. I am back again to give an update on my progress as I take on new cycling challenges. At 60 years old, I'm trying to get to the place where my health does not interfere with my ability to do some big things in a bike. My current health focus is to reverse insulin resistance for a number of reasons, and that includes that I believe my blood glucose levels are interfering with me becoming a stronger cyclist. The last few days have been frustrating because I have stopped making progress and in some ways, I have lost ground. I don't think I am doing anything differently from the past month, and yet I am not seeing improvements according to my weight and my continuous glucose monitor. I'm not ready to give up, though. I believe I just need to hang in there and not be too concerned just yet. I know it took me a while to get here and it will take a while to reverse things. In the meantime, my bike training has really suffered and I do need to get that straightened down. I just simply need to get on a bike and see if I can improve my outcomes through longer cycling.

Tom Butler: 1:24

Last episode I interviewed the Executive Director of Adventure Cycling Association this week. I went on the website in order to map of the route I am training to do next September. I have started to research the route, but I am looking forward to studying the route more when I get the map from Adventure Cycling Association. As a reminder, the route is the Washington section of US Bike Route 10. The start is Anacortis, washington. Anacortis is a very cool port city where you can jump on a ferry to get to the San Juan's. I will start there on my first day and look to go east on State Route 20 for 100 miles. That will require 4,741 feet of climbing, with 3,800 of it being the last 50 miles. That is much more climbing than I have ever done in a day, so I do need to put in the training to handle it. I would like to do the 100 miles in 12 hours. If I gave myself 2 hours of rest, I would need to maintain a 10 mile an hour average. I am not sure I could manage that goal right now while climbing.

Tom Butler: 2:25

I am hoping to do a 50 mile ride starting in Anacortis soon. I want to see what the route is like out of the city and into the mountains. Before I do that 50 mile ride, I need to figure out how to eat when I am doing longer bike rides. I am eating low carbs right now and most likely will be doing that indefinitely unless I get some other information than what I have been seeing about how to manage my insulin resistance long term. Since I made the change to low carb, I haven't been on a bike for a long enough ride for it to be an issue. Next week, I plan to do a 2 hour ride and monitor my blood glucose. That should give me a good indication of how to eat and do longer rides. I definitely need to find a cyclist who has been doing this for a while, preferably someone who is dealing with insulin resistance, like I am, so stay tuned for that.

Tom Butler: 3:27

Dillingham Washington is a different kind of place. People there are laid back and outdoorsy. It is also a community that is focused on eco-friendly living. I recently saw that they are updating a bike transit plan that was originally crafted in 2014. I thought that provided an opportunity to learn about bicycle transportation planning for a mid-sized city. The transportation department at the city of Bellingham was very supportive and I was able to get Joel Funt to agree to come on the podcast. Here is our conversation. I am so grateful that my guest today took time to come on the podcast. Joel Funt is here from the city of Bellingham. Thanks, joel, for joining me.

Joel Pfundt: 4:06

Yeah, I am happy to be here.

Tom Butler: 4:07

I want to first ask you about some memory that you have, like a special memory of something about cycling.

Joel Pfundt: 4:14

Well, I would say I do have many, but my most great memory is that about 10 years ago now, my daughter, when she was 14, came to me and said she would like to ride in the Seattle to Portland ride. And I had ridden it, I guess, three times before and I was like, well, that sounds like a fun thing to do and it's been a lot of times riding with friends and things like that, more people my age and my daughter and I had done some little fun rides and stuff. But I was like, okay, well, we'll see where this goes. And so we started out in March with a short little ride and did our little training plan and I openly told people I don't know if we're going to make it, but we'll just, you know, each week we'll do it and we'll have a good time and see where this goes.

Joel Pfundt: 5:03

And I spent, you know, that whole year up until STP riding with my daughter and that was really special. She rode it on a comfort bike with straight handlebars and she didn't want flip, she didn't want clipless pedals, so she wore her little Keds and stuff and we rode to Portland 12 miles an hour, steady pace the whole way and had a great time. And then there's a second memory that goes with that, because four years later, unbeknownst to me, this had become like a rite of passage. So my son comes to me and says well, you know, I'm going to be 14 this year, we're riding STP, right, and so I got to ride that with him as well, and that was a different experience because he's a different person, but it was just as special. And yeah, so that's, that's a great memory and something I'll always, always remember, and it's nice to have those things with your kids.

Tom Butler: 5:54

So that is fantastic, that I rode STP for the first time last summer and that's basically what gave birth to this podcast. That's fantastic and I love that image of her out there on different kind of bike than maybe a lot of people, going at her pace and just taking it in.

Joel Pfundt: 6:13

Yes, it was very much a learning experience for me, because I had to slow down. Okay, that was not the normal pace that I rode at recreationally, and so it was a really great experience for me too. I feel like, you know, you never know what you're going to learn from your kids, and that was a really neat experience.

Tom Butler: 6:30

Can you start out by telling people about your role at the city of Bellingham?

Joel Pfundt: 6:35

So I am the assistant public works director of the transportation division. I have been at the city all of six months now and my role is a new role Transportation. The disparate parts of transportation that I oversee was in a couple other divisions, departments before, or department actually in public works, but I oversee our traffic operations group, so they run all the traffic signals and stuff like that, our traffic engineering group, which then you know does development, review and reviews projects and that kind of thing and then also operates the signals and then also as part of transportation we have a number of other things like parking and parking enforcement, the fiber optic network, as well as a little bit different as well as transportation also includes the fleet maintenance for the city and then also facilities maintenance for the city. So it's a big group of people. We do a lot of different things, but my background and one of the reasons I was selected for the job is my background is really transportation, planning transportation, capital projects. That's really what you know.

Tom Butler: 7:48

I came up to the ranks from Gotcha, bellingham is a cool place to me, you know, whenever I'm in Bellingham I just love. There's like a vibe to Bellingham. In my opinion and if you're outside of Washington, if you ever get a chance to go to Bellingham, it's a cool place, pretty near the Canadian border, near the water, and it's a fun place to be. And I, you know I got interested in learning about what Bellingham is doing with bicycle infrastructure planning, and so that's what led to this interview. And in 2014, the city council approved the Bellingham Bicycle Master Plan. I'm curious if this was a significant step forward for bike friendly infrastructure, or was Bellingham already focused on bicycle infrastructure and in planning?

Joel Pfundt: 8:41

So the 2014 bike master plan was, I think, a huge step forward for the city. I will caveat, since I've been here with the city for a fairly short period of time, that I, of course, wasn't here in 2014. But I also have a kind of an interesting history and relationship with the city of Bellingham in that I was born and raised here, grew up here, went to Western Washington University that's where I got my urban and regional planning degree and then, shortly after that, moved to the Seattle area where I worked for, including spending about 20 years working for the city of Redmond and then the city of Kirkland, but I would visit up here often. My parents are still up here. That's one of the reasons I'm back up here now.

Joel Pfundt: 9:27

But also, I stayed in. I had a pretty good and consistent working relationship with one of the people that worked here and just recently left transportation planner named Chris Como, and so, between all those things, I feel like I was involved in some of those things maybe not directly, but was aware of what was going on and then visiting and seeing what's going on, and then kind of what I've learned over my time here so far. So I would say that, yes, the 2014 bike master plan was a big moment for the city of Bellingham in that there's always been a strong interest in cycling in the community, but it gave kind of form and action and more emphasis to what to do and how to do it.

Tom Butler: 10:18

What can you tell us about the project team learned at that time about what the state of support for Billingham was for Cyclists. Can you provide a summary or some insights on what they were learning in that planning process?

Joel Pfundt: 10:36

The timing, I think, was a pretty neat coalescing of a community that really wanted to do a bike master plan at that point. And then, at the same time, you had a team of a really talented team of staff and consultant team that came along at kind of the right point and time. And then 2014, that middle of that you know the 2010s was really when there was some huge movement forward in like bike treatments and how we do bicycle, you know bicycle infrastructure. You go back to 2010,. You know it was really the age of the, the Sherrow and you know just basic five foot bike lanes.

Joel Pfundt: 11:25

And by 2014, that era when this plan was put together, was really when there started to be that shift away from that towards a lot more discussion about even a regular bike lane isn't going to really get a lot more people out there bicycling because it's just for a lot of people it just doesn't feel comfortable, you know there's so. So it was these all these things, I think, kind of this perfect timing. And then you had this community that was like hungry to do these things, and so out of that came a plan that was really people really felt strongly about. And then the final element of that is the city actually provided. You know, put their money where their mouth with mouth is and invested in that and was very opportunistic as well about how to move that forward.

Tom Butler: 12:14

I found it interesting that in 2019, bellingham won the governor's smart community award and that was for the rapid implementation of the bicycle master plan. So that is really kind of you know when you talk about the city got behind it. I think that's evidence, you know, this recognition for the speed of implementation of the master plan and Bellingham had created more city wide bicycle connectivity than any other city of similar size in Washington. So it seems like the 2014 plan must have inspired a number of people.

Joel Pfundt: 12:51

Yes, for sure, and I, you know, one of the reasons that I was excited about coming back to Bellingham to live and then also work is that, for me, that's what I wanted to continue to do is build Multimodal transportation networks and, coming from the communities I worked in previously, they were very much on board with that as well, and so you know, it made it an easy transition to want to come to Bellingham, because there is a real alignment around from our elected officials, from the broader community. I would say there's an overwhelming majority of people who really want to see these things happen. Now, you know, does that mean that they're without controversy? You know the devil is always in the details, and so there's. We want to put him by claims, but you know we have to remove some parking or a variety of other things about what are the right ways to do that. But high level people want to get to.

Joel Pfundt: 13:55

Yes, and that 2014 plan really provided a roadmap for how to do that, and one of the ways that it looked at that is how do we reallocate existing curb to curb, let's say, you know the existing roadway, you know that's very finite, and building new roads, widening them, you know that's can be very expensive. You know there's a right of way. Anytime you move a curb, you're moving where the water is flowing, so you're having to redo all the stormwater underground. We can't widen the road without finding some new utility line underground that we need to relocate, and so one thing that the 2014 bike master plan really focused on was you know how these, this idea of kind of early implementation projects that could just and just, but you could go in and reallocate some of the existing curb to curb and change it from something that's dedicated to vehicles that's something that that's dedicated to bikes.

Tom Butler: 14:59

Do you think that there is something about the people of Bellingham that creates a unique environment for bike transportation and recreation?

Joel Pfundt: 15:08

I definitely think so there's. It is a very unique community. Having grown up here, coming back and, you know, visiting frequently it is. It's unique in that it's it's its own community and there are a lot of cities of a similar size that 90 to 100,000 that exist within a larger urban area. And if you've, if you've ever been to Bellingham, as you certainly have, you know you enter Bellingham from the south, from Seattle, down this kind of beautiful Creek Valley. The freeway runs along the side of and it's all treading. You kind of come around this corner and then Bellingham is in front of you and you do really feel like you're separate. And so because of that and its close proximity to the Canadian border and the influence that the greater Vancouver area has on the city, I do think it is. It has developed its own kind of unique culture and you know Washington stereotype, If you remember, almost live, of course you'll know, what I'm talking about.

Joel Pfundt: 16:12

So.

Tom Butler: 16:14

And almost life. Being a local program that kind of poked fun at a lot of things and had a lot of fun with the, the character of Washingtonians, I guess is right to say that.

Joel Pfundt: 16:26

Very true yeah.

Tom Butler: 16:27

How about Western Washington University as an influence? Do you think that also influences the this alternative? You know people power, transportation.

Joel Pfundt: 16:37

I think so. Yeah, I do think that the influence of the university is pretty significant. I have not looked at the list of most cycling. You know most bikeable cities, like the, the League of American bicyclists has their rankings of different cities. I you know, I haven't gone down the checklist, I would say, but I would suggest that probably most of the cities that are very bikeable on that list are either Large urban cities or their college towns, and so I think that Western students have an influence on many parts of you know how Belling, you know the and not only the students but the, the faculty and stuff like that do have an influence on the character of the community and the number of cyclists that are out there and and the utilization of the facilities and the need for them and stuff like that For sure.

Tom Butler: 17:33

You have some things that you would highlight about the 2014 plan that made it a special effort at that time.

Joel Pfundt: 17:41

Yeah, I do think because of, like I said earlier, that kind of that timing of when it was just as a lot of these ideas around you know a more safer, all-ages and abilities type of bike network, they weren't bleeding edge at that point, but they were still pretty new and it really was this emergence of these ideas from Europe that had really started to kind of take root in the United States, but it really not expanded very far. And I think when the plan was developed and these ideas were new, Bellingham was very willing to innovate and be on the leading edge of those things and do some of these treatments that were still at that point pretty new, you know bike boxes and green bike markings and those types of things and so I think that that was an important piece. The public involvement around the plan was, you know, robust and they got a lot of people coming out to meetings and being that were involved in the plan. We have a pretty active advocacy, you know, biking advocacy community in the city and so they were involved. And then really, you know, one of the big things was prioritizing this list of infrastructure projects and then really being focused on let's look at these corridors where we've got extra vehicle capacity, we just don't need it. Or we've got assigned parking along the side of a corridor where nobody's parking, I mean, which basically means you've got lanes that are almost 20 feet wide in some cases and it's let's put this valuable curb to curb real estate to work and not have it just sit empty. And then we had wide streets that just had extra capacity to them.

Joel Pfundt: 19:35

Once that was identified, then the city was like and now we're going to go after these and we've got a council and a mayor who are on board with us doing that, and so we've put the money and the design engineers and the consultants to work on that so that we could do those things pretty rapidly, because there's a lot of distractions, there's a lot of other projects.

Joel Pfundt: 19:54

But I also think the other thing that has happened at the city is that you know they did this very comprehensive identification of all these different projects and they had this 10 year plan they wanted to do. But they were also very opportunistic in that we look at it really holistically from the perspective of wow, if we're going to go out and do a major sewer project and we're going to tear up a, tear up a street to put in a new sewer line. Let's grab the map layer for the bike plan and see if we should be doing some bike stuff at the same time and not look at those things as two separate things, but look at it as a set of infrastructure where we can. Maybe you know, if we're doing this project, let's do this project and actually make things even better for the community. So we've been tried to be very opportunistic and leveraging our money so that it goes, and even our design resources for projects so that they go as far as they can go.

Tom Butler: 20:54

What an advantage that kind of planning is. That's awesome. In 2020, the League of American Bicyclists recognized Bellingham as a gold bicycle friendly community, and that was one of 35 in the US at the time. Of course, this was the time of COVID, and so there were a lot of restrictions. I'm wondering if that era the COVID era and kind of the shift in how people were moving around did it shed any light on the success of the 2014 Plank?

Joel Pfundt: 21:28

I think that it showed that having a transportation system that works for people walking and biking is a more resilient network.

Joel Pfundt: 21:40

It's more equitable because it's like everybody, especially with pedestrians we're all pedestrians at some point right, and so I think that that's one thing we learned is providing those facilities so that people can get around and also just get outdoors Is that so much of our cities are made up of public rights of way and so much of our public space it's not parks, it's streets, and we've spent as a country a lot of years orienting streets towards people in cars and to cars unto themselves.

Joel Pfundt: 22:19

And so I think we saw how Bellingham's focus on trying to shift and it's a process. There's been a huge investment over the years in catering to the car and that shift doesn't happen overnight. But the investment that the city of Bellingham had made at that point made it a bit more manageable to deal with COVID, because people could get outside and people could move around on their bikes and socializing the open air and those kinds of things. And so it's bigger than just that idea of bicycling as a mode of transportation. It's also a people-powered mode of transportation and it's a social thing and it's an opportunity to be part of the community In 2022, efforts began to update the Bicycle Master Plan.

Tom Butler: 23:12

Was there always a time set for an update or were there other factors that prompted a new plan?

Joel Pfundt: 23:19

I would say that it was always the plan to update the plan, the plan to update the plan. A plan has a shelf life and it gets to the point where it needs to be updated. It needs to reflect the latest and greatest thinking. We get high priority projects done. We learn stuff from those project implementations. Cities are such dynamic places. The community changes around the infrastructure and we need to reorient ourselves. Transportation is so tightly linked to land use and land use to transportation that development and land use planning continues to move forward.

Joel Pfundt: 24:03

With all of those things, the intent was always to update the plan, but by the time we got to 2022, it really did need to be updated.

Joel Pfundt: 24:12

So it's kind of both. But there's also we are on this cycle to within Washington State where we're required to update our comprehensive plans for the whole city, not just transportation, on a regular basis, and so part of the impetus was also to update the bike master plan and the pedestrian master plan in advance of the comprehensive plan update which is ramping up as we speak, because that meant that we could. You know, once again, since we take these, these bike and ped master plans very seriously, we wanted to get those at a stage where they could then be you know what we learned from those could be folded into that broader, larger, comprehensive plan for the end. And so you know it's all these things kind of you know link up, and I think for me that's one of them. You know, fascinating things is how all these different decisions we make are all part of why Bellingham's a gold cycling community is. It really does take more than just the bike master plan to make that happen. It takes all those other pieces to fall into place as well.

Tom Butler: 25:21

So I'm thinking there's quite a bit of technology and everything that goes in the 2014 plan that is you're looking at from, you know, 2010. And so is there been, would you say, major advancements, minor advancements. Do you think? Like transportation technology that supports bicycle infrastructure, do you think that there's been a big leap forward, as a lot of communities have embraced change?

Joel Pfundt: 25:46

Yeah, I would say from my perspective that one of the things that we've learned it was some work out of the Portland area is this concept of different types of cyclists. There's this 1 percent of people that are going to bike, like anywhere. They are just going to get out in traffic. They're going to duke it out with anybody. They're the people that are going to ride across the country. If that means riding on the shoulder of I-90, so be it. Then there's this group of people that are like this I can't remember the exact number, but 7 to 8, 9 percent that are the strong and confident. I would say for me that's what I am Is give me a bike lane, even if it's on a fairly busy arterial, I'm okay, I'm comfortable Now as I get a little older, maybe not quite as much as I used to be, but I'm good. Then there's 60 percent of people that are the interested but concerned. I would certainly put my wife in that category. She's athletic, she likes to ride her bike, but she's like you're going to die out there. I don't want to. That's not fun, that's not comfortable. That was one of the things that we really have learned is that there's this huge market for people cycling, but we have to give them a network to go out and be on, because right now what happens Not so well.

Joel Pfundt: 27:22

I think it's one of the nice things about Bellingham is that we have a lot of places where people just ride right from their doorway. I think there's a lot of places in Washington and around the country where going for a bike ride means taking your bike, putting on on the back of the minivan, driving to the local multi-use trail. Going for a bike ride it's very much about I'm not going to go from my front door. That's really what we're trying to emphasize more and more is that complete network. I think one other thing that we've learned is that you have to think about it from that complete network in that 100% trip, when we're thinking about cycling as transportation, is that it really is door to door. If 90% of your cycling trip is comfortable but 10% is really uncomfortable, those 60% in particular are not going to make that trip.

Joel Pfundt: 28:19

I've certainly experienced that personally where biking to and from a particular job, where there's one section that makes it really tough and maybe I'm way less likely to do it, then, once you're there, if there's no bike parking, well, it doesn't matter how nice your trip is, right, you've got to have bike parking at the end of your trip. So it's really thinking about this as a it's got to be 100% thing, because 90% is just not good enough. People aren't going to do that. So I think that those are some of the things that we've learned that we really need to think about this as a complete trip and a complete network. So that means there's a lot more work to do. We've made a huge amount of progress. We have great sections and there's a lot of places in Bellingham where you can get that complete trip, but there are a lot of places where we still have work to do.

Tom Butler: 29:11

It makes a huge difference, that feeling of security that you're talking about. You know, I'm thinking that people start experiencing that security with the 2014 plan and it seems like that's something they get used to. Do you think people have gotten used to feeling something different in the city, getting around by bike?

Joel Pfundt: 29:35

Yeah, I do think that when you reach a certain level of convenience, to me the holy grail that we're trying to reach for is when you it's like well, why wouldn't I make that trip by bike, like it's so easy, why would I go through the process of all the other steps to do something different? And it's convenient, but it's also comfortable and feeling safe and feeling like when you get there you're going to have a place to put your bike and all those kinds of things. But I do think that then people experience that and then they're like well, wow, that's really nice, we want more of that. So I would say that that is really where we're at a little bit is there's momentum around that, and I think that Bellingham is a gold league of American bicycle city and it's wanted because you can go out outside of where my office is at our Public Works Operations Center and we're adjacent to some de facto bike boulevards which are basically local streets, local low volume, low speed streets that are designated for cyclists and it's pretty interesting. You can sit there and watch the bikes go by. Now is it hundreds an hour? No, but it's a city of 90,000. And you go out and you just At commute time there's a pretty steady little stream of cyclists and I don't think that there's another community in Washington outside of maybe Seattle and the big city where that's the case.

Joel Pfundt: 31:20

I mean, I spent a lot of time working in Kirkland and Redmond to try to create that kind of environment and, yes, they both had very strong. There was a passionate, strong, cycling, commuting, utilitarian cyclist community, but they're pretty hardcore. And then there's a very active recreational cycling community. Like anybody who Lake Washington, which is what Seattle and Kirkland are both on. There's a ride called the Lake Washington Loop around Lake Washington and, of course, on Saturday morning that's like happening. There's big groups, lots of spandex, lots of bikes and stuff.

Joel Pfundt: 32:00

But Bellingham's unique in that on a Tuesday afternoon in November when it's 40 degrees outside, I could go out right now and I wouldn't have to wait very long before I saw somebody bundled up in street clothes, what looked like they probably got it when they got out of the office. They're biking home from work. I think that's what. When we think about cycling as transportation, that's what we want to get to. To me, the indicator species is somebody who is not male, who's on a comfort bike, who's got a basket on the front, although this is controversial. Maybe they're wearing a helmet, maybe they're not, but they are out there. That's what success looks like.

Tom Butler: 32:42

As we're talking. One thing that comes to my mind is it seems like the families that are comfortable getting their kids out, feeling safe, getting their kids out on the road, it seems like that must be a particularly impactful thing, because then those kids get used to it and kind of grow up with that being somewhat of the norm.

Joel Pfundt: 33:06

Yeah, and that is one of those things that I have not really thought much about or delved into. But, having grown up in Bellingham this was the early 1980s I had, of course, what was called a 10-speed at the time and we biked all over town and I did not live necessarily right in town and I cannot believe how much I rode around and I'm not sure what role I played in that and what role Bellingham as a community played in me doing that. The bike shop I bought my bike from is still around, or that my parents bought me the bike there's probably some of both but I do think that part of my interest was in. Cycling is a long-standing belief, and I was fortunate enough. Bellingham is also known as a huge mountain biking community, of course, with Galbraith Mountain here, and I was fortunate enough to start riding on Galbraith many, many years ago before it was what it is now.

Joel Pfundt: 34:07

I think that I would be remiss to not note that that also.

Joel Pfundt: 34:11

Not everybody is a road cyclist, that's a mountain biker, but there is certainly a cycling culture that comes out of that, and there are a lot of young mountain bikers who might get there, start riding single track trails on Galbraith, but then you become a pretty confident cyclist as a pretty young age and now all of a sudden you're like I don't want to wait for my parents to take me for ice cream, I'm going to take myself for an ice cream.

Joel Pfundt: 34:38

And so I do think there is a connection there and it's interesting that you bring that up because it gets me like the family's thing, because I do think it's really important. It was important to me and my family and it makes me think about the other technological advancement that we've made in the last few years that I think maybe I've been remiss and not mentioning is, of course, the e-bike and the role that e-bikes and more utility type bikes come into play and how, all of a sudden, this infrastructure that we have put into place, really it's even more used, because an e-bike is a game changer for those interested but concerned cyclists, especially in a town like Bellingham. That one of the things I love about it is it isn't all flat, and so the darn glaciers left all these piles of rock behind, and so that means that we've got these short, steep hills that we've got to deal with, and boy, the e-bike is a game changer there as well.

Tom Butler: 35:40

I'm curious about as someone who drives a car and also somebody that gets on dedicated bike paths. There are stoplights and I have a tendency to just take that for granted, but I'm wondering the technology behind that. Does it take some work to get that all ironed out, having bicycles and cars sharing a stop in a city?

Joel Pfundt: 36:04

It does. It is complicated and it's, I think. I do think that people this is a bit of an aside, but I think that we all tend to simplify other people's jobs Right, and there is a lot going on at the signalized intersection that I could go on and on about, but I would say, you know, our first in Bellingham, as I would say, in most communities at least this is what you know there's there are varying degrees of what, how seriously they take this, but we take it very seriously. Safety is number one. You know we want to avoid collisions, and especially with vulnerable users, cyclists and pedestrians. If there's a collision, especially if it's higher speed collision, the outcomes are just, you know, you're just not protected like you are in a car. That's a whole nother line of you know kind of things we could talk about.

Joel Pfundt: 37:00

But I would say that crashes happen at intersections. That's not all of them, but that's where the majority of the happens. You've got turning vehicles, you've got conflicts, and so there are things that you know we can do with markings and signage. It's difficult because we're, you know, in many cases trying to retrofit bicycle infrastructure into existing intersections, because it's a million and a half dollars for us to rebuild an intersection and a lot of time and money and purchasing right of way, and so we only get to redo so many, but you know, not that many actually, you know, there's just a very finite number. But it's easier, still complicated, for us to reorient things. But even in there, in that instance, things like bike detection making sure that cyclists are, you know, they get that sensed when there's a green light, it is that's become more challenging because bikes have gone more towards carbon fiber and some people think that bike, you know, these detection devices are oriented towards weight and they're not these loops in the roadway. They detect ferrous metals. It's a magnetic field and so as bikes have less and less metal on them, they're more and more difficult to detect. Some cities are going towards more video detection as video has become better, but even that is kind of so.

Joel Pfundt: 38:28

So you know, long answer to a question. But yes, there's a lot that we think about on how to make once again those intersections, you know, safe and comfortable and intuitive for everybody, because it is really where everybody kind of comes together. Bellingham has also gotten into the business of building roundabouts and especially single lane roundabouts. They're really, they're safe, they bring speeds down. We've gotten better and better about how to accommodate cyclists in roundabouts, but there's just a lot of information out there that by bringing those speeds down, if there is a collision which we don't want, but if there is the outcomes are so much less than severe than you know. If somebody runs a red light, those are that's, you know. That's the kind of thing really ends, you know ends badly.

Tom Butler: 39:23

Where are you now as far as updating the plan? Where are you in the process?

Joel Pfundt: 39:27

In the process. We are going out for our second community engagement here in December and so we have. Earlier this year, may in bike month we did a major outreach push. We had an interactive map online just demonstrating again how engaged the city is. We got over 1200 comments on an interactive map where people told us where their concerns, their you know issues, their hopes, dreams are for the bike network.

Joel Pfundt: 40:00

We got a whole bunch of survey results and so we've been, over the months since then, we've been collating all that, we've been working with our transportation commission to update the plan and so next month we'll be going out with a updated network and updated project list and then updated goals and policies for the plan and then also, you know, to go along with that updated network also a set of recommended actions that we would take from more of a programmatic approach, things like, you know, safer routes to school and encouragement and education in the community to promote cycling as a safe and healthy and attractive way to move about the community.

Joel Pfundt: 40:46

So all that stuff is going to be taken out to the community next month and we're going to be asking the community be like are we on the right track? What do you see from this? These draft plan elements that needs to be further adjusted, that type of thing, all in an effort to get here in, you know, early 2024, have a full plan put together so that we can take it back to our commission for their endorsement before taking it on to the council for their approval.

Tom Butler: 41:16

You have some live interactions that go on to. You have town meetings.

Joel Pfundt: 41:20

We have gone, like so many places, we've gone more virtual. We found that people are just more prone to show up to those these days and it's just so much more convenient. So we do have some of those planned in early December and then we'll also have ongoing. We'll have a story map that people, for the entire time we're doing the engagement, will be asking people to go on there and review the network and review those kinds of things and provide their comments. And then we're additionally going out and talking to some specific interest groups in person or virtually and doing some other, going out into the community and meeting people where they are, those kinds of outreach type things.

Tom Butler: 42:09

Are the schools involved in the in the planning process, the elementary high schools? Is that something that shapes it?

Joel Pfundt: 42:17

We have dealt with this. Go around, talk to the school district some, but we have not been into the, into the schools themselves.

Tom Butler: 42:28

Are there some findings that you're seeing is a little bit too early, or are there some things that you're noticing that are going to be patterns that you guys will address?

Joel Pfundt: 42:39

Yeah, there are some things that we've learned. You know I don't know that they're groundbreaking, but it's been really interesting to see in our surveys and what we've talked to people about, that, just how clear the community is. And this idea of what would you get you out to choose riding a bike more kind of question. It's that idea of a connected network of bike lanes. It's like if it just gets me 70% of the way there, it's just not going to work. They want streets that feel safer for biking. So that idea of not only technically being safe but actually feeling safe is important. They want secure places to park their bike at their destination. That's another thing, just like intersections. It's like it's amazing how complicated it is to get right. I'm sure you've found that bike rack that was too close to the side of the grocery store I know I have or something like that, where you're like, well, this should be able to hold five bikes and instead it holds one. They're interested in slower vehicle traffic. So I think we're learning that that's a bigger emphasis from the technical. The profession side is more emphasis on that. But it's really interesting. The community is telling us that too is like slower traffic would be better. That's interesting when we ask them where they would feel the most comfortable, once again they, adults, have a higher level of tolerance for comfort. They're going to be more willing to use a variety of facilities, all the way down to like a dedicated, marked bike lane. But when it comes to families, they're really interested in off street cycle tracks, parking, protected bike lanes. Those kinds of things are what people are telling us. These are where I would feel comfortable riding with children, and so I think that those are some of the things we've learned. I think one of the other things that has been interesting, if anybody was to go on a map and look at Bellingham, we are blessed with a.

Joel Pfundt: 44:49

The older part of the community is very much a classic old style grid, and that grid is great for non motorized transportation. Right, it spreads things out. Nobody likes cut through traffic, but it's like once you have so many connections, maybe everybody gets a little bit of cut through, but not everybody. No one person gets a lot those kinds of things. It's just such a redundant, resilient network, and so that's where we can do a lot of our bike boulevards, those kinds of things Also.

Joel Pfundt: 45:20

That was back in the day. That was 100 years ago probably, you know, back when you could fill in a swamp, those kinds of things. So it's flat, it's connected what we are finding in some of our newly developing areas because, you know, we just approach development different we don't just fill in a creek with salmon in it anymore, we're just not going to do that. But because of that you don't get that same connected grid. And so in some of our newly developing areas, where we're trying to make these areas work for all modes, we are talking more about how does our trail network play a bigger role in, you know, moving people on bikes for transportation, and that comes with its own inherent kind of wrestling, what the role of some trails are, and we're trying to think about that in a very, you know, prudent way. There definitely are recreation trails, and so that's something else we're having a discussion about is how to do that in a way that is an improvement for everybody and stuff like that.

Joel Pfundt: 46:26

Finally, I would say we're also back to the whole you know speed thing is that the city is looking very seriously at how we can design our streets to be, you know, encourage. You know we're taking more of that safer streets approach to designing our street network and then also speed limit setting how we can set our speeds more in context with the streets and looking at updating that as well.

Tom Butler: 46:52

That's great. That just seems to validate so many things, getting that kind of feedback. How do you look at integration with public transportation?

Joel Pfundt: 47:03

It is a place that we work really closely with our local transit agency, the Wadcom Transportation Authority. They've been great to work with and how we can set up the transit network to work seamlessly with the bike network. We're doing that more and more in a couple of different ways. They've looked at providing more and more bike infrastructure at stops. We do some of that. They have a series of frequent transit routes where they've tried to provide places to put bikes and bike parking. I think there's a lot, actually more to be done there, and that is an area that has continued to move forward is like at bus stops how can we design bus stops to minimize conflicts between bikes and buses, and I think there are some, you know, neat designs that we're looking at making sure we highlight in the in this plan and looking at what we might do in the future on some of these corridors where we have a street that really has to work for all modes of transportation.

Tom Butler: 48:10

You get a sense about how much a bike-friendly infrastructure has been embraced by the business community.

Joel Pfundt: 48:17

I would say that it is definitely part of what Bellingham is. It's just part of the community's culture. We have a very independent like a large independent-minded business community. There is a lot of interest from that community in biking and being part of that bike culture that is in the community. It's one of those areas that, being here a fairly short period of time, I have not gotten as engaged with. My sense is that there really are interested and encouraging of that as part of their customers, their community members, and that's also another place where this tie-in between the mountain biking and the road biking. You know we have a couple of major bicycle manufacturers and I was just looking at it the other day with my son. There are a lot of bike shops in Bellingham.

Joel Pfundt: 49:12

For the size of the community. We are blessed with a number of really great bike shops.

Tom Butler: 49:17

Well, you want to be careful about your son looking at bikes.

Joel Pfundt: 49:19

You know that can bring too much. That's right, dude, it's tricky.

Tom Butler: 49:25

Are there other cities that you look at and say there's a lot to be learned as far as bicycle transportation is concerned?

Joel Pfundt: 49:35

So much of what we learn and new things unfortunately in some ways comes from a whole other continent. Some of the places in Europe are just so far ahead of us, like I referenced a little bit and I won't belabor it. But what we do is such a small part of the policy and the infrastructure approach and from a transportation perspective there's in other countries and things like that. They just take such a different approach to how they approach the personal automobile and how much they tax the purchase of it and those kinds of things which all have profound impacts on how many people ride bikes or choose to ride bikes. That's kind of the bigger picture thing, but I would say like locally we all talk.

Joel Pfundt: 50:25

You know it's a profession and stuff like that and there are some really great things that, like City of Seattle, can do at a scale that you know the City of Bellingham can certainly learn from. The City of Bellevue has done some amazing work. They have resources, fortunately. They've done some really neat work in the safety area that just delve into the details of some of those things around risk. You know, being more proactive in how to address and identify places where you might have issues. They have a lot of opportunities there. And then of course, you know Vancouver, british Columbia. They're an influence to Bellingham because of their proximity but they've done some amazing things with getting more people out biking and taking advantage of, you know, their infrastructure and making you know reprioritizing, let's say how they. You know how they look at the different modes. So those are some of the ones you know kind of close by. And of course, you know some of this work that I referenced earlier that came out of Portland and some other research stuff that was, you know, has been really helpful.

Tom Butler: 51:31

Well, joel, this to me has been an awesome conversation. I'm so grateful that you took the time to do this. You know, I think about something you said earlier, where it's like it seems like everybody has their opinion about what should be happening with the roads and with intersections and with traffic, and you know, I don't know a lot of people that are. I feel I can say this. Maybe you can't say this, but it doesn't seem like people are. People are really sharing those opinions from a perspective of a lot of information about what goes in the traffic planning. You know so, but my commute is slow, so if they just did this, that that would fix everything.

Tom Butler: 52:14

It's really helpful to kind of hear what you brought here, and I'd like to wrap up by just asking do you have some adventures on a bike that you have planned, some things that you would like to take on personally?

Joel Pfundt: 52:29

Well, you know, right now I'm enjoying being back in Bellingham and being able to. We were specific, you know, we tried to find a place to live where we could, you know, have easy access to Galbraith Mountain, since I'm a mountain biker. And then our next big thing is we don't have any e-bikes in our house. We're still all normally aspirated, or whatever term you'd like to use. My big next bike adventure is very local, is that? My wife and I have both been talking. I would like to get her and specifically, but myself as well. We have e-bikes and, you know, we're still adjusting from where we were living before and really trying to take advantage of the infrastructure here in Bellingham and, you know, bike more and more. For what I'm talking about is, I feel like, take more advantage of that. I love to bike around town and it is I find, coming from the east side of Lake Washington, that biking in Bellingham is just, it's much less stressful for me and I'm really enjoying being able to just, you know, to do that.

Tom Butler: 53:36

Awesome. Well, again, thank you so much for joining me and good luck with all the planning and, as you know, with the public comment times and opportunities and everything. So take care now.

Joel Pfundt: 53:48

Yeah, you bet. Thank you for reaching out and it's been a pleasure.

Tom Butler: 53:52

Awesome. Bye now Bye. Having been to Bellingham, I can really picture what Joel was talking about, as he shared that he is liking the change from being in a bigger metro area. I'm a bit envious of being in a place that seems to embrace bicycle transit in a really meaningful way. I think maybe I need to visit Bellingham more often.

Tom Butler: 54:20

I was struck by how complicated it is to make changes to transit infrastructure. I think that just makes it even more important that cyclists take every opportunity to interact with city officials and express the need for more safe streets. Planters need to know that there are a lot of people that will use good infrastructure. What suggestions do you have for effective bike transit advocacy? It would be great to hear from you. You can find my email and the show's Instagram link in the show notes. Please give me your thoughts. If you listen through Apple Podcasts, it would be helpful if you left a brief review of the show. I am always looking for ways to improve it. I hope that wherever you are, there are efforts to improve the streets for bicycles so that we can all enjoy more time on the set and remember age is just a key change.